Turf to Dirt Adjustments - Pace and Cap

cprescigno · 01-01-2006, 11:49 AM

I was looking at a race at Santa Anita Dec 30th. Actually the first race. WHen checking the pacelines I had one horse with only three turf races to choose from. Normally I would try to get away with leaving him out but I thought he was good enough to be included and wanted him in. I have been doing really well on this level dirt sprint at Santa Anita so I didn't want to pass since I only get one race like this on a card.
Ultimately I used a median of his three performances as a paceline. It was either blind dumb luck or beginner's luck but I picked the right paceline.
The BL tiers produced the finishing five horses in their exact positions and I made a few bucks here.

How can I manually make an adjustment from turf to dirt or the reverse if I come up with a similar situation?

socantra · 01-11-2006, 10:48 AM

Wow. That's a great question and I'd love to see some more responses.

I'm not at all sure that much adjustment is needed in sprint races. They usually get off a bit slower, but final times are not a whole lot different. In 5f and 5.5f turf sprints, the psrs are usually a little slower than dirt, probably because they don't get as good a starting kick on the slicker surface.

The longer they go, the faster the turf pars become as opposed to dirt, partially because its a softer surface to run on. At a 10 furlong race, I've seen estimates that turf times are as much as 5 ticks faster. Of course, the early pace is more liesurely.

Bottom line. I don't know. I suspect that at six furlongs, not a lot of adjustment is needed. Of course, you always run the risk that your hot turfer may not like the dirt and may not run a lick.

Any turf specialists out there?

dick...

shoeless · 01-11-2006, 03:34 PM

I dont know about sprints but when they switch a route race from turf to dirt the pros say always look for speed horses because the majority of the horses are closers.Jeff

tompkins · 01-12-2006, 02:34 AM

turf miles are very close to sprints and the only times you will see a goodly number of front runners do well so they lend themselves to dirt sprint comparisons

dogkatcher · 01-13-2006, 03:26 AM

It has been my experience that the Turf rating will boost the tier level in most cases, thus if not in top 2 or 3 tier levels, I remove them from consideration. Don't ya just hate it when those type of horses are in your special race LOL. Best of Luck

shoeless · 01-13-2006, 06:21 AM

I wont put turf lines into dirt and vice versa.I think Richie will and has hit some big ones doing this.But I could be wrong as usual.Jeff

01-01-2006, 11:49 AM	#1
cprescigno Spec Rookie Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: NYC Posts: 258	Turf to Dirt Adjustments I was looking at a race at Santa Anita Dec 30th. Actually the first race. WHen checking the pacelines I had one horse with only three turf races to choose from. Normally I would try to get away with leaving him out but I thought he was good enough to be included and wanted him in. I have been doing really well on this level dirt sprint at Santa Anita so I didn't want to pass since I only get one race like this on a card. Ultimately I used a median of his three performances as a paceline. It was either blind dumb luck or beginner's luck but I picked the right paceline. The BL tiers produced the finishing five horses in their exact positions and I made a few bucks here. How can I manually make an adjustment from turf to dirt or the reverse if I come up with a similar situation? Attached Images

01-12-2006, 02:34 AM	#4
tompkins Grade 1 Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 708	turf miles are very close to sprints and the only times you will see a goodly number of front runners do well so they lend themselves to dirt sprint comparisons __________________ velocititian

01-11-2006, 10:48 AM	#2
socantra Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Norman, OK Posts: 387	Wow. That's a great question and I'd love to see some more responses. I'm not at all sure that much adjustment is needed in sprint races. They usually get off a bit slower, but final times are not a whole lot different. In 5f and 5.5f turf sprints, the psrs are usually a little slower than dirt, probably because they don't get as good a starting kick on the slicker surface. The longer they go, the faster the turf pars become as opposed to dirt, partially because its a softer surface to run on. At a 10 furlong race, I've seen estimates that turf times are as much as 5 ticks faster. Of course, the early pace is more liesurely. Bottom line. I don't know. I suspect that at six furlongs, not a lot of adjustment is needed. Of course, you always run the risk that your hot turfer may not like the dirt and may not run a lick. Any turf specialists out there? dick...

01-11-2006, 03:34 PM	#3
shoeless Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 4,609	I dont know about sprints but when they switch a route race from turf to dirt the pros say always look for speed horses because the majority of the horses are closers.Jeff

01-13-2006, 03:26 AM	#5
dogkatcher Grade 1 Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 478	It has been my experience that the Turf rating will boost the tier level in most cases, thus if not in top 2 or 3 tier levels, I remove them from consideration. Don't ya just hate it when those type of horses are in your special race LOL. Best of Luck

01-13-2006, 06:21 AM	#6
shoeless Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 4,609	I wont put turf lines into dirt and vice versa.I think Richie will and has hit some big ones doing this.But I could be wrong as usual.Jeff