Is Big Brown ready for the best again? - Pace and Cap

mikesal57 · 08-04-2008, 07:58 AM

Hi ,

Do u think BB would still be considered one of the best of all time?

prior to the Belmont ...maybe yes....but did his injury and his showing in the Haskel shows something else?

Here is The Lady's Secret two races prior to The Haskel...

Opinions?

MIKE · 08-04-2008, 09:49 AM

--all it showed was that he needs his steroids !!!

socantra · 08-04-2008, 10:26 AM

Salty Response - EPR- 92 FFR 86 TPR 178.
Big Brown - EPR 92 FFR 91 TPR 183.

Best of all time? That's a pretty lofty claim, and we'll never actually know for sure. BB looked to me like a pretty good horse who needed the race. Showed a nice strong closing fraction though and I'm sure the $600k will come in handy.

Dick

socantra · 08-04-2008, 11:15 AM

Let me correct those TPRs. I don't often do this in the morning, when I'm straight.

Salty Response - EPR 88 FFR 87 TPR 175
Big Brown - EPR 89 FFR 91 TPR 180

Dick

mikesal57 · 08-04-2008, 11:18 AM

I think he stole that money...but we''ll see if Dutrow puts him in the Travers..

and if he does, I see lots of others going in to face him..

p.s.- i think salty was coasting at the end and coulda had a better tpr

Tim Y · 08-04-2008, 02:05 PM

Steve Christ

45 pm: Wow that was ugly. It's hard to imagine Big Brown racing again after his desperate, bearing-out victory in the Haskell, but stranger things have happened. And at least he'd go out a winner and with just one career defeat -- in the Belmont -- just like his future fellow Three Chimneys Farm stallion, Smarty Jones.

mikesal57 · 08-04-2008, 04:02 PM

Thxs tim..i thought i was the only one that saw it like that

tom · 08-05-2008, 08:09 PM

It is not uncommon to lose or regress the first start after the triple crown. Curlin LOST this race last year, and Secretariat lost 2 of 4 right after the Belmont. This was not the goal of BB, I would guess. It was a prep, and a darned good one considering he caught a lone front runner on a speed favoring track. He lost a lot of conditioning with his foot trouble before the Belmont, so he was not in top shape. His last top effort was back in May. Then a freshening. His next race will tell the tale. If he moves forward from the Derby win, he is ready for anyone.

What I like most was he shot out of the gate, then wrestled with Kent for a while, then, when the leader oped up on him late, he dug in and went to work.
Bits and pieces of a big effort, just some assembly required.

horsecharles · 08-06-2008, 12:10 AM

I was the biggest BB fan... I gave him out in both Derby(with Rags to Riches) & Preakness-- but would not ever include him among the best of all time. In years of yore, with more talented crops & larger fields, he wouldn't win any Grade 1's.

I don't place much weight on the Haskell(nor the Belmont)-- or on any midsummer race for any leading horse for that matter, & I side with Tom re post-TC.

But I also side with Crist of DRF-- & I almost fell out of my chair when BB was pushed and whipped like some cheap claimer...further, I couldn't believe how all the yahoos cheered afterwards in total oblivion of that, the mediocre result, the errant path... guess they were happy at not losing their $2 bet.
Across the pond, the crowd would've gasped and probably fell totally silent in spite of the win.

I'm a bit concerned with BB's handling-- if the goal is the BC, then he came back too soon-- esp. with those feet.
Of course, if the goal is to NOT run in the BC...retire imminently....

The contrast between the Belmont & Haskell couldn't have been more stark: from pulled up before even hitting the stretch to getting the poop whipped out of him before even hitting the stretch.

Rverge · 08-06-2008, 04:48 PM

MR BILL V! Big Brown in the Penn Derby!!!! it can happen!
Rverge

08-04-2008, 07:58 AM	#1
mikesal57 Grade 1 Join Date: May 2008 Location: Staten Island, NY Posts: 3,952	Is Big Brown ready for the best again? Hi , Do u think BB would still be considered one of the best of all time? prior to the Belmont ...maybe yes....but did his injury and his showing in the Haskel shows something else? Here is The Lady's Secret two races prior to The Haskel... Opinions? Attached Images __________________ Never bet a favorite doing something for the first time-Harvey Pack

08-04-2008, 10:26 AM	#3
socantra Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Norman, OK Posts: 387	Salty Response - EPR- 92 FFR 86 TPR 178. Big Brown - EPR 92 FFR 91 TPR 183. Best of all time? That's a pretty lofty claim, and we'll never actually know for sure. BB looked to me like a pretty good horse who needed the race. Showed a nice strong closing fraction though and I'm sure the $600k will come in handy. Dick __________________ "Ils Sont Partis"

08-04-2008, 11:15 AM	#4
socantra Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Norman, OK Posts: 387	Let me correct those TPRs. I don't often do this in the morning, when I'm straight. Salty Response - EPR 88 FFR 87 TPR 175 Big Brown - EPR 89 FFR 91 TPR 180 Dick __________________ "Ils Sont Partis"

08-04-2008, 11:18 AM	#5
mikesal57 Grade 1 Join Date: May 2008 Location: Staten Island, NY Posts: 3,952	I think he stole that money...but we''ll see if Dutrow puts him in the Travers.. and if he does, I see lots of others going in to face him.. p.s.- i think salty was coasting at the end and coulda had a better tpr __________________ Never bet a favorite doing something for the first time-Harvey Pack

08-04-2008, 02:05 PM	#6
Tim Y turf historian Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 6,455	Steve Christ45 pm: Wow that was ugly. It's hard to imagine Big Brown racing again after his desperate, bearing-out victory in the Haskell, but stranger things have happened. And at least he'd go out a winner and with just one career defeat -- in the Belmont -- just like his future fellow Three Chimneys Farm stallion, Smarty Jones.

08-04-2008, 09:49 AM	#2
MIKE Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Rochester NY Posts: 196	--all it showed was that he needs his steroids !!!

08-04-2008, 04:02 PM	#7
mikesal57 Grade 1 Join Date: May 2008 Location: Staten Island, NY Posts: 3,952	Thxs tim..i thought i was the only one that saw it like that __________________ Never bet a favorite doing something for the first time-Harvey Pack

08-05-2008, 08:09 PM	#8
tom Grade 1 Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 644	It is not uncommon to lose or regress the first start after the triple crown. Curlin LOST this race last year, and Secretariat lost 2 of 4 right after the Belmont. This was not the goal of BB, I would guess. It was a prep, and a darned good one considering he caught a lone front runner on a speed favoring track. He lost a lot of conditioning with his foot trouble before the Belmont, so he was not in top shape. His last top effort was back in May. Then a freshening. His next race will tell the tale. If he moves forward from the Derby win, he is ready for anyone. What I like most was he shot out of the gate, then wrestled with Kent for a while, then, when the leader oped up on him late, he dug in and went to work. Bits and pieces of a big effort, just some assembly required.

08-06-2008, 12:10 AM	#9
horsecharles AlwNW1X Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 5	I was the biggest BB fan... I gave him out in both Derby(with Rags to Riches) & Preakness-- but would not ever include him among the best of all time. In years of yore, with more talented crops & larger fields, he wouldn't win any Grade 1's. I don't place much weight on the Haskell(nor the Belmont)-- or on any midsummer race for any leading horse for that matter, & I side with Tom re post-TC. But I also side with Crist of DRF-- & I almost fell out of my chair when BB was pushed and whipped like some cheap claimer...further, I couldn't believe how all the yahoos cheered afterwards in total oblivion of that, the mediocre result, the errant path... guess they were happy at not losing their $2 bet. Across the pond, the crowd would've gasped and probably fell totally silent in spite of the win. I'm a bit concerned with BB's handling-- if the goal is the BC, then he came back too soon-- esp. with those feet. Of course, if the goal is to NOT run in the BC...retire imminently.... The contrast between the Belmont & Haskell couldn't have been more stark: from pulled up before even hitting the stretch to getting the poop whipped out of him before even hitting the stretch.

08-06-2008, 04:48 PM	#10
Rverge Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: pittsburgh, now! Lancaster, CA. Posts: 2,531	Penn!!! MR BILL V! Big Brown in the Penn Derby!!!! it can happen! Rverge __________________ i love every single minute of life, and, if one is lucky,then you must give it to others.