Doc's Manual - Pace and Cap

shoeless · 07-17-2005, 11:32 AM

I have been reading that manual that I got from Binder.In it he talks about looking at the race conditions to see if horses can be eliminated.Also that spot play will be improved considerably by doing this.This is something that I do first and I wonder what has changed so much that people using Sartin Programs would stop.It is even so much more prevelent now because more and more races are written with conditions.If you need help with this a great read is The Handicappers Condition Book by James Quinn.Make sure it is the updated version. Shoeless

Binder · 07-17-2005, 11:45 AM

Hi Jeff
The yellow manual has a chapter on eliminating horses
by the conditions

When your reading that yellow manual
Just always keep In mind that when that was written
The methodology was about winning races at any price
win % was the number one goal
You may find that your losing because your using old methodology and
looking for prices which is in the modern /after follow Up #70(?)
method

Its best to go one way or the other

Binder

shoeless · 07-17-2005, 11:59 AM

Binder, That's good to know Im glad that you brought that up.I didnt realize that before it was % of winners not profit.Do you think that would apply to using programs as well if I wanted to go the % of winners route?Also pre FU 70 what programs were being used? Shoeless

Binder · 07-17-2005, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoeless

Binder, That's good to know Im glad that you brought that up.I didnt realize that before it was % of winners not profit.Do you think that would apply to using programs as well if I wanted to go the % of winners route?Also pre FU 70 what programs were being used? Shoeless

Hi Jeff I really don't know
I came in to the methodolgy at Follow up 69
Pl4 was the program then but I got synthesis
right after that. So Pl4 must have been around for awhile
I know about programs called Energy,Entropy Quad Rator Thoromation
Phase III PL2 but never saw anyof them

Maybe other can answer this

Binder

shoeless · 07-17-2005, 01:34 PM

Binder,But in smaller tracks for example CT and Penn trainers do this to get prices by running out of condition races and then back in.I know this is sorta off the beaten path which leads me to another question.Any chance of putting up a place where oddballs like me use mainstream handicapping with the programs.That way we wouldnt bore the people who have no interest in this.Of course I might be the only one to leave posts there. Shoeless

socantra · 07-17-2005, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoeless

Any chance of putting up a place where oddballs like me use mainstream handicapping with the programs.That way we wouldnt bore the people who have no interest in this.Of course I might be the only one to leave posts there. Shoeless

Jeff,

I really don't mean any disrespect by this, and I realize that we all use some mainstream handicapping, Doc included.

I think though, that on a board dedicated to carrying on the Sartin methodology, setting up a whole forum for those who choose to do things radically dfferent from what the Doc was teaching is probably not a good idea.

Dick...

shoeless · 07-17-2005, 03:29 PM

Dick,I really dont see much of a difference setting up a forum for Speculator and one for people who wish to follow Doc's manual and using his older programs. Shoeless

07-17-2005, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoeless

Dick,I really dont see much of a difference setting up a forum for Speculator and one for people who wish to follow Doc's manual and using his older programs.

Speculator is MAIN STREAM methodology written by the SAME fellow who wrote the last several programs. It is NOT some back alley variety but an improved way of looking at many of the SAME allgorithms that previous programs had just in a more user friendly atmosphere.

Folks, it would appear, would rather step forward than step backward

socantra · 07-17-2005, 07:29 PM

I'm not really talking about people who use older programs, or even those who decide to play the older Phase III type of game. I've seen several people who can use basic Brohammer style handicapping mixed with a bit of money management and do quite well. I think the newer techniques work better and will make more money, but the older style will certainly increase your win percentage.

I'm also not talking about looking at the conditions or checking average earnings. Both of those things fit in the methodology at times and not at others. Some people pay more attention to trainers and jockeys than others. As I said, we all use a little bit of mainstream handicapping in our methodologies, so that really doesn't need a seperate forum.

My problem is that part of your mainstream handicapping is betting one horse, and that is something you are not going to find anywhere in any of the manuals. Two horse betting has been central to the methodology since its beginnings. You, of course, are free to bet however you want. I just don't feel a seperate formum for discussion of topics that were NEVER a part of the methodology is a good idea.

Dick...

07-17-2005, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by socantra

My problem is that part of your mainstream handicapping is betting one horse,.

dont know to WHOM this was addressed, but bet two horses 90% of the time usually MORE in combinations..only when nuggets come up at vauable odds should one break the mold.....They are NOT a common variety wager to ANYONE who wants to last long in this game but should not be overlooked. Singles account for very special situations.

07-17-2005, 11:32 AM	#1
shoeless Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 4,609	Doc's Manual I have been reading that manual that I got from Binder.In it he talks about looking at the race conditions to see if horses can be eliminated.Also that spot play will be improved considerably by doing this.This is something that I do first and I wonder what has changed so much that people using Sartin Programs would stop.It is even so much more prevelent now because more and more races are written with conditions.If you need help with this a great read is The Handicappers Condition Book by James Quinn.Make sure it is the updated version. Shoeless

07-17-2005, 11:45 AM	#2
Binder Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Northern NJ Posts: 674	The manual Hi Jeff The yellow manual has a chapter on eliminating horses by the conditions When your reading that yellow manual Just always keep In mind that when that was written The methodology was about winning races at any price win % was the number one goal You may find that your losing because your using old methodology and looking for prices which is in the modern /after follow Up #70(?) method Its best to go one way or the other Binder

07-17-2005, 11:59 AM	#3
shoeless Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 4,609	Binder, That's good to know Im glad that you brought that up.I didnt realize that before it was % of winners not profit.Do you think that would apply to using programs as well if I wanted to go the % of winners route?Also pre FU 70 what programs were being used? Shoeless Last edited by shoeless; 07-17-2005 at 12:03 PM.

07-17-2005, 01:34 PM	#5
shoeless Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 4,609	Binder,But in smaller tracks for example CT and Penn trainers do this to get prices by running out of condition races and then back in.I know this is sorta off the beaten path which leads me to another question.Any chance of putting up a place where oddballs like me use mainstream handicapping with the programs.That way we wouldnt bore the people who have no interest in this.Of course I might be the only one to leave posts there. Shoeless

07-17-2005, 03:29 PM	#7
shoeless Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 4,609	Dick,I really dont see much of a difference setting up a forum for Speculator and one for people who wish to follow Doc's manual and using his older programs. Shoeless

07-17-2005, 07:29 PM	#9
socantra Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Norman, OK Posts: 387	I'm not really talking about people who use older programs, or even those who decide to play the older Phase III type of game. I've seen several people who can use basic Brohammer style handicapping mixed with a bit of money management and do quite well. I think the newer techniques work better and will make more money, but the older style will certainly increase your win percentage. I'm also not talking about looking at the conditions or checking average earnings. Both of those things fit in the methodology at times and not at others. Some people pay more attention to trainers and jockeys than others. As I said, we all use a little bit of mainstream handicapping in our methodologies, so that really doesn't need a seperate forum. My problem is that part of your mainstream handicapping is betting one horse, and that is something you are not going to find anywhere in any of the manuals. Two horse betting has been central to the methodology since its beginnings. You, of course, are free to bet however you want. I just don't feel a seperate formum for discussion of topics that were NEVER a part of the methodology is a good idea. Dick...