Match Up book questions - Pace and Cap

Secretariat · 02-03-2007, 10:29 AM

Jim,

I'm reading the new book after having read the orginal PIRCO manual on the match up and your previous book. I appreciate so many examples, but with examples also comes questions as well.

For example, on page 27, I have three related questions.

One. Run Style question, you lists Consuela as a Sustained/Presser even though the horse won it's next to last from only 1.5 lengths back at the first call and was a head back at the second call. The horse has never been more than 3 lengths back at the first call ever. Why a Sustained presser rather than an Early Presser?

Two. Projeced Pace on page 27 race. You assign a 22.2 projected first call from Pretty Girl Slew's third race (which was a 1/2 furlong shorter than today and a different track), plus Pretty Girl Slew finished 6.75 lengths back in that race and couldn't handle the early fraction. Not sure as well how you decided the second and final projected pace in that race as well.

Three. Paceline. Why was Maggio's second line chosen as opposed to his last line or even his fourth back?

Forgive me for asking these questions, but abdulia which Howard used to talk about is one of the issues I struggle with. And in this case just trying to udnerstand your example a bit better.

Thanks.

THE HAT · 02-03-2007, 01:10 PM

Howdy,

I have sent you a private message to answer your questions.

Jim

Secretariat · 02-03-2007, 05:51 PM

Thanks Jim, your reply was most helpful.

pmannet · 02-08-2007, 08:28 PM

Hat;

Can you please send me the answers as well. I may have to re-learn a couple things.

I just got the book a couple days ago and have been reading through the threads here before asking questions. BUT secretartiots questions are ones I have put notes about in the book so far. So it would help me to know the answers as I continue to read it.

Thanks!

Jonathan Steele · 02-09-2007, 12:06 AM

"Can you please send me the answers as well."

I was hoping Jim's answers would be posted to this thread--where ALL would be able to learn--rather than in personal replies.

Jon

THE HAT · 02-09-2007, 09:49 AM

I realize there are going to be question, but if you keep reading you will find the answers in the book. I will post the questions asked by Secretariat.

One. Run Style question, you lists Consuela as a Sustained/Presser even though the horse won it's next to last from only 1.5 lengths back at the first call and was a head back at the second call. The horse has never been more than 3 lengths back at the first call ever. Why a Sustained presser rather than an Early Presser?

Answer: In determining running styles I use positions and not beaten lengths. The last two races shows that Consuela’s style is more sustained than early.

Two. Projeced Pace on page 27 race. You assign a 22.2 projected first call from Pretty Girl Slew's third race (which was a 1/2 furlong shorter than today and a different track), plus Pretty Girl Slew finished 6.75 lengths back in that race and couldn't handle the early fraction. Not sure as well how you decided the second and final projected pace in that race as well.

Answer: In The Match Up a sprint is a sprint. I did not like the 23 that Pretty Girl Slew ran in her last race, so I used the 22.2, which I thought would be a more realistic time in today’s race. I used the second call and final time from her last pace of race. Not what Pretty Girl Slew ran.

Three. Paceline. Why was Maggio's second line chosen as opposed to his last line or even his fourth back?

Answer: You can use any line you mention on Maggio, but you can’t make her the winner of the race. Iused the third line, because she was close at the first two calls and I wanted to see if she would give my early horse any trouble in the race.

pmannet · 02-10-2007, 10:57 PM

Excellent clarification that will help me go forward. Thanks!!

Bill Lyster · 02-12-2007, 11:08 AM

Jim:

Question regarding track to track adjustments. See table page 122 and text page 123.

Repeating what I understand: low number = faster track.

Turfway = 2; churchill = 6, meaning that Turfway is 4/5ths quicker than CD.

The last paragraph on pg 123 says TP is 2/5ths slower than CD. Does this mean that TP is really an 8? Can you resolve this apparent conflict?

[I may have several other possible track to track related questions that await this clarification]

2nd question concerning the construction of the chart: On pg 121 you stated that you used the time of 107 to arrive at the equalization number for each track. Does this mean that chart is based on 6f times, or? I understand this 2nd question could have a lengthy answer, but if the chart needs updating, I'd volunteer as long as I can understand your methodology.

Thanks,

Bill

02-03-2007, 10:29 AM	#1
Secretariat AlwNW1X Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5	Match Up book questions Jim, I'm reading the new book after having read the orginal PIRCO manual on the match up and your previous book. I appreciate so many examples, but with examples also comes questions as well. For example, on page 27, I have three related questions. One. Run Style question, you lists Consuela as a Sustained/Presser even though the horse won it's next to last from only 1.5 lengths back at the first call and was a head back at the second call. The horse has never been more than 3 lengths back at the first call ever. Why a Sustained presser rather than an Early Presser? Two. Projeced Pace on page 27 race. You assign a 22.2 projected first call from Pretty Girl Slew's third race (which was a 1/2 furlong shorter than today and a different track), plus Pretty Girl Slew finished 6.75 lengths back in that race and couldn't handle the early fraction. Not sure as well how you decided the second and final projected pace in that race as well. Three. Paceline. Why was Maggio's second line chosen as opposed to his last line or even his fourth back? Forgive me for asking these questions, but abdulia which Howard used to talk about is one of the issues I struggle with. And in this case just trying to udnerstand your example a bit better. Thanks.

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02-03-2007, 01:10 PM	#2
THE HAT Grade 2 Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 86	Howdy, I have sent you a private message to answer your questions. Jim

02-03-2007, 05:51 PM	#3
Secretariat AlwNW1X Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 5	Thanks Jim, your reply was most helpful.

02-08-2007, 08:28 PM	#4
pmannet Maiden Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 2	Hat; Can you please send me the answers as well. I may have to re-learn a couple things. I just got the book a couple days ago and have been reading through the threads here before asking questions. BUT secretartiots questions are ones I have put notes about in the book so far. So it would help me to know the answers as I continue to read it. Thanks!

02-09-2007, 12:06 AM	#5
Jonathan Steele Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 471	"Can you please send me the answers as well." I was hoping Jim's answers would be posted to this thread--where ALL would be able to learn--rather than in personal replies. Jon

02-09-2007, 09:49 AM	#6
THE HAT Grade 2 Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 86	I realize there are going to be question, but if you keep reading you will find the answers in the book. I will post the questions asked by Secretariat. One. Run Style question, you lists Consuela as a Sustained/Presser even though the horse won it's next to last from only 1.5 lengths back at the first call and was a head back at the second call. The horse has never been more than 3 lengths back at the first call ever. Why a Sustained presser rather than an Early Presser? Answer: In determining running styles I use positions and not beaten lengths. The last two races shows that Consuela’s style is more sustained than early. Two. Projeced Pace on page 27 race. You assign a 22.2 projected first call from Pretty Girl Slew's third race (which was a 1/2 furlong shorter than today and a different track), plus Pretty Girl Slew finished 6.75 lengths back in that race and couldn't handle the early fraction. Not sure as well how you decided the second and final projected pace in that race as well. Answer: In The Match Up a sprint is a sprint. I did not like the 23 that Pretty Girl Slew ran in her last race, so I used the 22.2, which I thought would be a more realistic time in today’s race. I used the second call and final time from her last pace of race. Not what Pretty Girl Slew ran. Three. Paceline. Why was Maggio's second line chosen as opposed to his last line or even his fourth back? Answer: You can use any line you mention on Maggio, but you can’t make her the winner of the race. Iused the third line, because she was close at the first two calls and I wanted to see if she would give my early horse any trouble in the race.

02-10-2007, 10:57 PM	#7
pmannet Maiden Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 2	Excellent clarification that will help me go forward. Thanks!!

02-12-2007, 11:08 AM	#8
Bill Lyster Grade 1 Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Escondido CA just 25 minutes from where the turf meets the surf - "...at Del Mar" Posts: 2,499	Jim: Question regarding track to track adjustments. See table page 122 and text page 123. Repeating what I understand: low number = faster track. Turfway = 2; churchill = 6, meaning that Turfway is 4/5ths quicker than CD. The last paragraph on pg 123 says TP is 2/5ths slower than CD. Does this mean that TP is really an 8? Can you resolve this apparent conflict? [I may have several other possible track to track related questions that await this clarification] 2nd question concerning the construction of the chart: On pg 121 you stated that you used the time of 107 to arrive at the equalization number for each track. Does this mean that chart is based on 6f times, or? I understand this 2nd question could have a lengthy answer, but if the chart needs updating, I'd volunteer as long as I can understand your methodology. Thanks, Bill