Turf Timing at Woodbine

[MikeB]

Originally Posted by Ted Craven

An email from Tim Y:

I re-read my note and I am afraid it painted a picture that is far worse than is really at hand. SURE there are discrepancies between the back up hand timed grass races and Trakus, but CONSISTENCY between the various hand times. Every track initiates that safety valve when needed.

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Certainly the main concern here is that accurate and consistent numbers are published in the PPs. The statement above would seem to indicate that to be the case, correct?

[Hoof 11]

Originally Posted by Ted Craven

Just FWIW, I don't want to be a 'messenger' for Tim's comments beyond a certain (still interesting and valuable) point. I.e I can't get into a debate by proxy lest I become schizophrenic (or bored) . But since Tim works at Woodbine, and appears to have regular contact with operations staff and others, I find the issues of timing - or perhaps, working out the kinks in Turf timing - valuable and so far worthy of the time spent relaying messages.

I am passing them along without editorial. Hoof - either Woodbine reads this thread and/or your emails, or Tim's latest comments above apply, or there was always an ongoing process rounding towards best possible accuracy (or all of the above).

As for 'Headley' band, well it looks like it was first announced May 3 and was surely in negotiation before then (and likely before opening day) - and the costs were set before whatever Turf timing issues (and costs to remedy) may have been noticed for the 2016 season. I do know who Beyonce and Radiohead are, but I'm not sure who Headley is. I do miss Stompin' Tom though ...

Ted

I’m sure we’re not alone when it comes to complaining about the timing issue, it just boggles my mind that this is still an issue after 6 weeks of racing on the Turf, excluding last night. I was joking when i said this thread or my email was the solution.

It isn’t just Woodbine that suffers from bogus timing, there are many other tracks in the U.S. that have the same issues. CJ has documented the tracks that have had flaws with their timing, and i can just imagine how aggravating it must be for a figure maker. The most important part of horse racing is the timing of the race, and to have such a lax attitude about it from the racetracks is insulting to the horseplayer and the industry as a whole.

As far as Hedley is concerned, maybe if you were a 15 year old girl you would be better acquainted with the band. That’s the part i don’t get, are you trying to get teenage girls to be future horseplayers? Are you trying to alienate the people at the track? It’s the wrong band for the setting in my opinion. Having worked in the industry i understand how it all works, they were booked at least 6 months to a year in advance, and seeing that it’s a “corporate event”, Woodbine is paying a steep price for the appearance. The point i was making was, get your house in order before you start tossing money out the window. Priority one should always be the production of the horse race, not the frivolous party that will do absolutely nothing to gain new customers. How many people on Queen’s Plate day actually come back and become regular customers? They’re only there because it’s an “event”, or it’s the “place to be” on Sunday. You won’t see most of those people again until next year, but by all means keep catering to them while taking a massive dump on the horseplayers that play year round.

In my opinion, there should be 2 timing systems installed in case of any discrepancies. Not some bozo with a stop watch and a pair of binoculars..... unreal.

[Hoof 11]

Originally Posted by MikeB

Certainly the main concern here is that accurate and consistent numbers are published in the PPs. The statement above would seem to indicate that to be the case, correct?

No, they are handing over hand timed races to Equibase, which are inconsistent as well as being a prehistoric way of timing races. I might as well take my horse and buggy to the track this weekend, right after i do my laundry down by the river. Horse racing, the only sport that still lives in 18th century.

[Mitch44]

I agree Hoof 11. The "band" was a waste no matter when it was booked.

If any track wants to establish more customers the best way is by word of mouth from satisfied customers. As horseplayers we're treated badly as a whole throughout the industry.

GP has some issues with their turf races also and I avoid them. There are just too many choices to take the worse of it nowadays. Many races have unknown factors and it just makes no sence to add more unknown factors.

Like your posts Hoof 11 but tell us how you really feel. ha ha ha It must be awful crowded down at that river on wash day but I won't be there, seeking cleaner water.

Mitch44

[Ryan.p.coli]

Ted- Who's this beyonce person that you're referencing?

In all seriousness, Woodbine was likely worried that the betting public would shy away from turf races on one of their biggest racing handle days of the year. Notice how there are no turf races on their 300K guaranteed pick 4.

Glad that they addressed it as i'm sure some of these stakes horses running on the grass this weekend will ship elsewhere for their next start. I saw some familiar names on the queen's plate undercard running in some turf races.

I liked the comparison of horse racing being stuck the 18th century, because fans in this sport are quick to get their pitchforks out in the figurative town square.

Good skill to everyone this weekend! I'll be active in the pools and online contests trying to qualify for a free entry in the Arlington Live Money contest July 9th.

[Mitch44]

This can workout for our benefit in the future. The best option is to play elsewhere, however some must play there as they are forced to play a certain track because of wagering account restrictions of that State etc. or you can adapt to take advantage of this knowledge.

Let's apply some situational handicapping by discounting these lines in favor of previous lines, lines from other tracks and the use of later lines if the timer problem has been fixed. Simply treat it as a problem race for that horse, much the same as wrong dis., surface, taken up, forced wide, bumped or in other words wrong time. However if that's all you have and you choose to play there than you must use what you have.

This should give you an advantage over the public or competition.

Mitch44

[Tim Y]

Commute coming in from Belmont, PUBLIC choice Full Mast (4th) from the same venue, second choice Smokem Kitten from Gulfstream (5/2) were no where in the feature today.

Anomaly or significant?

[Bill V.]

Hi Tim

This is a Grade 2 8.0 turf I think class takes preference here

I'm looking at the # 1 Commute # 2 Full Mast and # 3 Smoke Kitten

#1 Commute best of last 3 comparable Line 4 SR 88 However It has only 1 graded stakes plus race that was line 3 but at 5.5 furlongs
#2 Full Mast No comparable usable North American pace lines
line 1 is projected from 7.0
#3 Smoke Kitten Line 1 94 Speed rating grade 3 win
#4 Line 1 82 Speed rating However no graded stakes plus races
#5 Line 2 85 Speed rating but 539 days ago However no graded stakes plus races
#6 Lines 2 and 3 Speed ratings 88 and 89 196 days and 245 days old
However no graded stakes plus races
#7 Line 4 Speed rating 87 -377 day ago Grade 2 win
#8 Line 1 Speed rating 83 Projected from 7.0T WO Grade 2 win
#9 Scratch

The winner # 8 paid $37
It is # 3 VDC #4 Total energy, #1 LPR and #1 HE

Considering the class ability off Commute and the unknown ability of Full Mast The winner # 8 could be considered , Right ?

Thanks
Bill V.

[Tim Y]

logical yes, but then the BIG shippers did not do well Sunday either. What is up with that?

[Tim Y]

what I found BASIC to the Sartin Methodology,is that PACE is Class, Class is pace.

Horse's have NO idea what HUMAN level they are running against ONLY TIME.