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Sartin Methodology Handicapping 101 (102 ...) Interactive Teaching & Learning - Race Conditions, Contenders, Pacelines, Advanced Concepts, Betting ...

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Old 07-11-2020, 02:12 PM   #11
Ted Craven
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Originally Posted by mick View Post
Welcome, kevbrim. RDSS contains all the functionality of Doc Sartin's many programs so there is a lot to digest. Nothing wrong with "paper" bets. I do it whenever I'm trying something new.

In the short term, you may want to focus on the Rx page and in particular the "PL" and "BPP" columns. The top four in each will give you about 80% winners. That reduces your contenders to something more manageable.

Like he said, in fewer words! (He's a writer, and Hemingway to my Proust).

Ted
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Old 07-11-2020, 03:16 PM   #12
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Ted, I enjoyed it anyway.
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Old 07-11-2020, 03:30 PM   #13
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Nobody could write like Proust, which is a good thing. I remember reading one of his sentences that ran for almost two pages. I've never seen so many semicolons. Growing up in the South though, I had to read Faulkner until it was coming out my ears. He was almost as verbose as Proust. (No, I take that back. Proust is in a league by himself.)

Faulkner and Hemingway, fellow Nobel laureates and polar opposites in writing style, did not like one another and the insults flew back and forth. When asked what he thought of Faulkner's work, Hemingway was reported to have replied, "Well, it's good. But so much of it is unnecessary."

And none of that had a darn thing to do with horse racing. My apologies.
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Old 07-11-2020, 03:35 PM   #14
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Thanks again all for the welcome and advice. I'm a high school science teacher. So with my science background I'm always interested in the "why". All of the historical information is great and has helped a lot. I read through all the "From the Tops" yesterday. Skimming through the yellow manual now. I haven't downloaded the software yet. I need to have a conceptual understanding first before I take that plunge. Ted I'll be sure to search for the post you recommended.
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Old 07-11-2020, 04:17 PM   #15
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MJS6916;
Glad you enjoyed the post. I tried to go through the evolution of Sartin stuff for background while letting the new and old know what was still relevant while giving an explanation of the same. Yes even those around for years still don't get it or some of this stuff.


Sartin's style of writing can also be a challenge however it does come into focus after years of experience and practical application. Some never get it. My post was to remove some of the obstacles to get you out of the gate much faster and on to the wire to be a winner. Some very good nuggets in there for those that listen, some just have too much stubborn resistance to change to be successful.


Wishing you best of health and success. BTW Sartin had a teacher of these methods from NY that was a Chaplain who built a church from his winnings. His name was Bert Mayne.


Best of luck,


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Old 07-11-2020, 04:50 PM   #16
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Bert still uses RDSS. Retired from preaching a few years ago. Joined us in Saratoga a few years back with his daughter Jenny, gave a talk at one of our seminars and hosted Mum and me at his farm for a nice dinner and chat.

Lovely and complex gentleman.

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Old 07-11-2020, 06:06 PM   #17
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So happy to here Bert is still around Ted. He was a complex man for sure, into meditation and things somewhat before they came in vogue. At least much of it was way before I ever heard of it.

He wrote some stuff for Sartin who was attracted to great minds. Bert had an air about him of confidence and calm, where as Bradshaw at times was all over the page. Now that could be a Ying and Yang show, simple and complex.

I'll never forget when Bert Mayne was guiding us through a race and someone asked about a horse in the race to which Bert said;" Now why would you ask about that horse, he couldn't run around a dog dish let alone a racetrack." Ha ha ha


His favorite and local track was Finger Lakes. Tim (Lt1) rode the train back to NY with him.

Mitch44

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Old 07-11-2020, 06:06 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Ted Craven View Post
Kev, you have to decide how much 'theory' and 'history' of the Sartin Methodology you need (or can stand). At any given historical time point, all publications, discussions and seminars at least referred to or in many cases were exclusively related to whatever was the current software tools of the day.

Today, the current software toolset is RDSS. Doc said you could reduce things to ONE screen in RDSS (then, the BL/BL screen) and save people who were coming to analysing horse races much of the mental clutter and paralysis by analysis. As always, even in his final years, he was being kind and somewhat hyperbolic .

But, seriously, to get started and enjoy a simplified (though powerful) analysis of a given race in 1 minute (or however much time after that you wanted) - you could do a lot worse than to start with the RDSS Rx+ screen.

Find posts by member rmath (Dick M or Rich M - I've always called him Dick) or entice him to re-post a summary of his 4-number method here. (4-numbers = VDC, CSR, ProfitLine, BRIS Prime Power). There is more on the Rx+ screen, but you could start there. A simple method exists to eliminate down to 4 horses maximum for Win Contenders, while leaving some others as in-the-money Contenders. To begin, use the lines for each horse picked by the software (later, improvise - or not).

It really does take 1 minute or less. If you have time, or want to confuse yourself before you know what you're doing, you can look at each horse's Past Performances and second guess the program. If you connect RDSS to the toteboard (when it works, in the current version ), you get additional info about horses which win or finish in the money a very high percent of the time - the P/W Place to Win pool live money ratio.

Then, read everything posted by rdiam (Richard D) about betting, wager construction and passing races.

Of course, there are many other excellent members' posts to go over and digest their advice and usage practice, including Mitch44, Lt1, Bill V, For The Lead, even me ... and several others for sure.

The historical Follow Ups documented the history of things and taught those at the time. Today, this Forum is the Follow Ups and we are all trying to help each other.

I know you're just getting started, and so far are hopefully pretty free of 'expert knowledge' and 'received wisdom'. That puts you ahead of most of the crowd, who already KNOW what doesn't work and what should work (but doesn't).

RDSS can be had for cheap on a 3-month subscription, and you can download data 1 card at a time, so the cost of entry for tools is low. There's TONS of back data available to test. But more important, if you work CURRENT races, and the SAME races which some other experts have worked and posted in their Daily Selections, you can model their behaviour and usage patterns. In a much shorter order than agonizing over guidelines from 1986, you can be making bets, keeping models, tracking your decisions, sharing and learning with others here.

Then you can go back and get a PhD in the historical Sartin Methodology! Or, understand the concepts and principles that the software enables. In other words, test drive the Ferrari first, then gradually appreciate what's under the hood and how all the magic works

Welcome, and wishing you all the best!

Ted


I found this (October, 2018) from rmath:

http://paceandcap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11919
10-25-2018, 03:04 PM #1
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Contenders
I have recently completed a 1000 race study on getting the win contenders in the race.
1. )Playable races are non Maiden, no Turf , 3yr. olds and up with a minimum of 3 North American running lines for each horse,
AND at least 8 betting interest in each race.
2. ) Only races run at 5.5f, 6f, 1mile. mile and 70 yds. , and 8.5 f were used
since these are the most common distances run at the tracks I play.

963 winners were ranked in the top 5 on one of these 3 ratings: CSR- Profit Line or Prime Power.
919 wins had at least two of the 3 ratings.
Rmath


I thought these were the numbers Ted was reffering to.


Hope this helps,

Mike
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Old 07-11-2020, 06:27 PM   #19
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I remember being in Docs' room at the 95 Meadowlands seminar asking him questions. Any way at 1 point he looked at me and stated "you know you don't have to be a mechanic to drive the car". In other words you don't need to know how everything in the program works to be a winner. All you have to do is follow his guidelines and keep records and you will be well on your way to success.
Tim
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Old 07-11-2020, 06:45 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJS6916 View Post
I found this (October, 2018) from rmath:

http://paceandcap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11919


I thought these were the numbers Ted was reffering to.

Hope this helps,

Mike
Indeed, those. I spent a couple of hours going over these with Dick again this week, seeing what was new, how I could help enable or improve their use in upcoming RDSS, plus some other ideas.

In fact, for those who attended last year's Saratoga Friday night seminar, Dick spent an hour or so reviewing these ideas and handicapping a couple of Alabama Stakes day races. Followed by a talk by Richard D (rdiam) on betting best-practices. Then Charlie B (Gandalf380) leading us in analyzing with RDSS a couple of the Stakes races. All with pizza!

I invite Dick to elaborate or clarify his ideas here or in a new Thread.

Ted
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