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Old 03-06-2019, 10:35 AM   #1
Ted Craven
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Effects of Climate Change?

This Thread is spun off from another Thread which is about Santa Anita canceling racing pending sorting their racing surfaces and the reasons behind many horses dying this current season.

http://paceandcap.com/forums/showthr...ewpost&t=12121

Discussion related to the reasons being in part due to climate change are moved here.

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Old 03-07-2019, 02:18 PM   #2
The Pook
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Yes I agree that the track has to be rebuilt. But why not go with a track that has proven to be safer everywhere. Be proactive. They probably didn't install the ProRide surface properly years ago. Woodbine went through one kind of polytrack to get to the one that works now. Safer than anything Florida tracks have.

Mitch:"Even scientists can't agree on global warming and are like politicians, pick your poison."
97% of world climate scientists agree that the globe is warming and is caused by human activity. Hard to know who to believe isn't it.

The rainfall totals shown are past averages. The future will not necessarily be like the past. Worst fires ever from extreme drought then concentrated periods of wet. Kind of like typical weather in California but with more extreme fluctuations.

If you are going to rebuild the track anyway be proactive and adapt as best you can.

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Old 03-07-2019, 07:53 PM   #3
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Effects of Climate Change?

Another problem with SA is they made a new training track which is the same as the main track. HMM!! Most training tracks are built to be kindler to horses but not SA.


One of the biggest problems they had with Syn. tracks in Cailf. was that they heated up which was hard on horses. The surface temperatures were significantly higher that the air temps and dirt temps. Trainers had a big say in the change to protect both horses and owners.


" 97% of world climate scientists agree that the globe is warming and is caused by human activity. Hard to know who to believe isn't it." Well I have absolutely no idea where that figure comes from, therefore its a mute point without facts behind it. How many actually participated with their own study verses just singing along with the chorus ? I'm all for clean water and air and we can do plenty to clean up the world. Man is the filthiest animal in the world.But come on cow farts are a little too much for my brain housing group. I do know one thing and that is there are billions upon billions more people in this world that cows. I guess human corks will be the next rage.

California refuses to adapt and overcome, can't burn the underbrush, make fire breaks or build plants for drought by extracting salt free water from the ocean. WE all know the definition of insanity. Such beauty destroyed every year in that state along with many hearts.


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Old 03-08-2019, 04:23 PM   #4
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I have been thinking of how or even even why I should respond to this and finally came up with a reason of which will be explained at the end. To keep a little relative to the topics on this site I can even use three of Sartin’s words “preponderance of evidence”.

"Well I have absolutely no idea where that figure comes from, therefore its a mute point without facts behind it. How many actually participated with their own study verses just singing along with the chorus ?"

I think you mean "moot" point Mitch. Folks I'm sorry if I have gone off topic with a non horse racing topic. It started out as a relative point and has veered away. My bad I suppose. But at the same time it does deserve attention because it is and will be the most significant event of our time. And even here, I feel I should do my bit to help the "mis" and or "ill" informed. We have a better chance of dealing with it if we all pull in the same direction.

I don't blame certain groups of people for not knowing where the actual facts come from. Misinformation is a big part of some politics. Unfortunately this problem has become a partisan political issue. It shouldn't be. It is simply science and more specifically physics. The truth is "inconvenient".

I don't believe everything I see on the internet. Nor should anybody. But in this case because of where I live (in the north) I know the figures are truthful and pointing in the same direction. I see the warming outside my door all the time. Subtle still, but there, over time. And more easily than people further south would see it. One example: we used to reach -30C two or three times every winter. It was fairly consistent. In the last ten years it has become rare. We still have snow and winters, but generally a shadow of what used to be more reliable. Winters are more apt to be strange mixes of ice, snow and rain with abrupt changes. Ski resorts can't operate without snowmaking equipment as they once could. Some no longer operate at all. My favourite one closed more than twenty years ago because winters had become too unreliable. A friend of mine works in the insurance industry. Claims for weather related damage have skyrocketed in the last decade in Canada. Ice storms, floods, wind, and fire. Record fires are not just happening in California. Western Canada is also experiencing these in record numbers, size, and intensity and it has nothing to do with how things are managed. Just more dry and more hot. This is just the warming part though but it is the warming that is the catalyst for most everything else like loss of bees and insects. I see less of those too.

The earth has been warmer than this in the past. This info is gathered through ice core samples. Scientists look back hundreds of thousands of years at parts per million of carbon. The reading of ppm of carbon is climbing and is the highest since a few hundred thousand years ago when the earths temperature was several degrees higher. Carbon ppm has a direct correlation to temperature. The top ten warmest years in recorded history are: 2016, 2015, 2017, 2018, 2014, 2010, 2013, 2005, 2009, and 1998. This is since 1880. A microcosm in time, yes, but still awfully coincidental with the increased carbon ppm. Temperatures can and have changed dramatically fast many times. Dramatically fast in geological terms can be a decade or two, even a few hundred years. But this catalyst needs a catalyst. This time it is us. It is everything we do. Cows, cars, whatever. If it spews a gas that causes the atmosphere to retain solar heat, it is part of the problem.

You could say that this group of scientists or that group of scientists is feeding us a line. But when what they find is backed up by personal observations I have to go with the odds and the “preponderance of evidence”. Our group knows about odds. There are flat-earth people, and people that still believe cigarettes cause no harm. For me personal observation puts them in a small group of deniers that could never be shown the truth. The group of deniers on the climate topic is still too large but maybe some will wake up.

The technology and scientific know-how already exists to fix the problem. It is political will that is missing. Life is comfortable for those that benefit most from the way we operate now. Why would they want to change? Maybe they think they will be immune. Nope. A major complaint is that it will harm the economy. A switch to a low or no carbon economy would have some pains but a no/low carbon economy would eventually be just as big with retraining and completely new areas of work. It has already started.

I am not a social media person. No Facebook. No Instagram. No Twitter. Just a bunch of people wasting their time arguing IMO. But here, if by posting this response I make somebody think twice, or reconsider a political choice so that more of us are on-board, then it will be worth it. It is still doable but only for a limited time.

Again I apologize for getting too far off topic. I hope this thread is not taken down or at least not too soon for being irrelevant to horse racing, but it did start out that way. The more that see it the better. It may have some small affect.

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Old 03-08-2019, 05:01 PM   #5
Ted Craven
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Pook, these are valuable thoughts on the MOST important topic of our lifetime (IMO) and the lifetimes of our children and their children, etc.

As are the preceding comments by Mitch because they prompted your reply.

And related enough to the Thread Topic about Santa Anita's problems and horse deaths that I understand why a discussion about the effects climate change might naturally flow in this Thread. Sooner or later though, I'm sure we'll get around to bashing politicians, entire countries and eventually each other.

That's why these types of discussions normally get relegated to the 'Off Topic' Forum (hint: there is no Off Topic Forum).

In this case, and partly for the sake of 'cleanliness' of how much a Thread Title describes the content of the thread (for future generations browsing PaceandCap) - I want to move this discussion to its OWN Thread.

Pook - what should I call that new Thread? Something like: 'Effects of Climate Change'?

Any comments here which are related to that sub-topic, I'll copy to the new Thread.

In all cases, I trust EVERYONE who chooses to respond will think twice or thrice before letting us have their respectfully phrased (though sure passionate) thoughts.

Back later tonight ...

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Old 03-08-2019, 06:04 PM   #6
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Pook after all that I remain un-swayed. Yes just a microcosm of time, similar to basing a system or method on one race.


To the best of my knowledge those scientists that did that study manipulated the facts and were caught. However it didn't get the great publicity that their agenda received. That's why they print retractions on page 60 in small print.


Here's one for you that I read just a few days ago; in the city of Los Angelis, Cailf. for the month of Feb. the temperature never rose above 70 degrees. The first time in 132 years. So much for global warming or being the problems for S A racetrack. Nope a man made problem with a poorly designed track


Maybe Bill V. can verify the LA data for Feb. Oh btw with the Bee's its manmade and studies prove it from chemicals man is using and not global warming.


Pook save your breath as you may need it up there with all that hot air, wishing many winners come your way.


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Old 03-08-2019, 06:34 PM   #7
The Pook
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Ted what is the point? As you can see from the above response, the entrenched are the entrenched. Some cannot be woken up.

Mitch is a fantastic handicapper of horse races and I have learned from him. I tried to wake him up about this but failed. You are right though that we have to thank him for generating what I did write. It might wake up somebody.

I don't want to bash anybody or anything. I would just let this fizzle out or delete it. A section on climate change and opinions on a horse racing site? Weird.

Do what you want though.

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Old 03-08-2019, 06:51 PM   #8
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I believe all references to global warming should be removed from this thread. All members are entitled to their own opinions. No one is wrong or right. For every one point presented on one side another counter point can be made. The bottom line it doesn't belong on a horse racing site.
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Old 03-08-2019, 08:51 PM   #9
Ted Craven
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt1 View Post
I believe all references to global warming should be removed from this thread. All members are entitled to their own opinions. No one is wrong or right. For every one point presented on one side another counter point can be made. The bottom line it doesn't belong on a horse racing site.
Tim
But not their own facts.

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Old 03-08-2019, 09:28 PM   #10
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After reading this thread, I thought I stepped into an off-topic area.

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