Newbie saying hello - Page 3 - Pace and Cap

pktruckdriver · 05-04-2009, 10:08 AM

Thanks Charlie

It seems that i should read a few things 1st, am I correct, that part is hard for me, reading and comprehending fancy numbers/fractions and such, as I mentiioned, I'm a trucker, not a student of mathematics from MIT, a 4 finger typist with a broken computer, and i still stab on, and feel this may be work for me, but i may need to adjust how i learn it so I may learni it, if that makes sense, hope it did.

I really would like to try to learn this as you all seem so nice and happy here, no griping and complaining this doesn't work and so forth, i like that, but I am a person with out many hours a day to read and study , but can study thru audio or dvd watching as Idrive all day doing nothing, but will that actually work and is there anything that fulfills that for me, reading manuals are a must I am sure, but just be honest here, they are hard for me to comprehend with out help, with help , i can do anything I feel, why not.

well gotta run go too many miles to do today, don't ask how many cause it is too many.

thanks again
patrick

Charlie D · 05-04-2009, 10:29 AM

Yes, read Bill V's post on that link and the Manuals, Follow Ups he advises. Bill has also started a new forum "Welcome to The Sartin Methodology" for any questions newbies have regarding the Sartin Methodology

Don't worry Patrick, you don't need a degree in Mathematics, you just need to understand The Dynamics of Incremental Velocity and Energy Exertion. In other words, The Match Up

pktruckdriver · 05-04-2009, 10:43 AM

The match-up, okay sounds easy enough, but have a feeling it's not that easy, but thanks.

I will switch to the newbie forum you suggest too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie D

Yes, read Bill V's post on that link and the Manuals, Follow Ups he advises. Bill has also started a new forum "Welcome to The Sartin Methodology" for any questions newbies have regarding the Sartin Methodology

Don't worry Patrick, you don't need a degree in Mathematics, you just need to understand The Dynamics of Incremental Velocity and Energy Exertion. In other words, The Match Up

Charlie D · 05-04-2009, 04:49 PM

Patrick

Not everyone has driven a truck and i would think learning how to drive one would not be easy, but with a bit of instruction from experienced people like yourself and lots and lots of practice most people could. The same applies with The Methodology. The instruction from experienced people is in the Manual's, Follow Up's and demo's on Pace and cap.

Get stuck into reading the Manual's etc and if your not sure about anything, just ask. The experienced people are more than willing to help you and others like you.

Al the best

Tim Y · 05-04-2009, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pktruckdriver

The match-up, okay sounds easy enough, but have a feeling it's not that easy, but thanks.

I will switch to the newbie forum you suggest too.

here is an example from the Donn Hdcp this year. Race finished 2/10. Just try to find pace lines where the entrants ran against a similar pace

pktruckdriver · 05-04-2009, 05:19 PM

You are trying to scare me off, no just kidding, to be honest with you what I see makes no sense , honest, that does scare me ,( but does not change mmy mind, once committed I get pretty stubborn, and I try not to let too much that I want to learn to become unlearnable, if that is a word, it may take a little longer with me, but learn it I will, as I see it as way to successful horse playing, then I am ready to give my best), BUT,as I see no pace lines or match ups just a few horse names I recognize, thats all.

patrick

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Y

here is an example from the Donn Hdcp this year. Race finished 2/10. Just try to find pace lines where the entrants ran against a similar pace

Charlie D · 05-04-2009, 05:24 PM

Patrick

Presuming you'll be using RDSS, go to RDSS forum and find Glossary of terms thread by Bill V.

noddub62 · 05-04-2009, 05:43 PM

Hey PT,

Welcome aboard. This is a great site with a lot of folks much more apt at handicapping than I. Sometimes the information posted is a bit overwhelming but don't worry just start as previously suggested and learn the basic concepts.

In my opinion you can have too much information sometimes and find yourself weaving and bobbing because you missed that last race so you must not be doing it right and then you change, etc, etc. Hence the KISS in the message box. Using the basic concepts find what works and Keep It Simple Silly. Barb is a great example of someone starting from zero and becoming a good handicapper. Follow her advice.

Ted extended development of a great program. The two hard parts are picking the correct pace line and proper wagercapping.

And just to show you how good we all are, look at the contest results.

Good Luck and don't be afraid to ask questions,

Budman

pktruckdriver · 05-04-2009, 09:27 PM

POW is Pyschology of Winning , right?

Patrick

310 pages of suggested beginners reading , just the manuals, not the follow-ups, whew , may be overwhelming just that number alone, especially for someone who really doesn't like to read that much, I have been spoiled with Audio books, but will have them printed up , it seems to be only a dime a page, or about 40.00, ceratainly doable for me, and will done, hopefully it will be fun reading , last real book I read was a Clancy Novel and WEB Griffin, over 10+ years ago. They were page turners, hope theses are...

Thanks Patrick

Ted Craven · 05-04-2009, 09:43 PM

Patrick,

Check your Private Messages.

Perhaps you have grasped, but I'll attempt to state it: Pace and Cap is dedicated to the Sartin Methodology and The Match Up, which is actually a 25 year plus evolution of ideas of Doc Sartin and numerous others (e.g. Jim 'The Hat' Bradshaw). But each experienced person here came in at a different point, from decades ago to a few years ago, to yesterday, and thus brings their preferences and slant on what they've understood and what software they used or currently use, if any.

Unlike, say, HSH, or HTR, or CJ's Pacefigures, or Pizzolla's Black Magic, this Forum doesn't only focus on ONE software program (though RDSS is certainly the modern of Doc Sartin's cumulative work) - rather the binding element is the IDEAS developed by Sartin, Bradshaw et al, including the notion that the psychology of the game, the mental/emotional skills, are at least as important as the analytical and wager strategy aspects. That, plus the curious notion of a teaching community, hopefuly evocative of Sartin's practice, in his day, being a 'healing arts' organization as much as a business (or travelling salvation show, as some might put it...).

Perhaps you can understand then, that folks, seeking to be helpful, are naturally inclined to give you each their best intentioned advice, their favourite screen shots, most thumbed manuals or Follow Up journal articles - i.e. what has worked for them. I am often overwhelmed by the cumulative generosity of most folks here, and have grown in understanding by orders of magnitude in recent years.

You don't have to understand a lot of software. You can't even get that older software (legally). Use RDSS, watch the videos, establish some one-on-one tutilage. You don't need to print out the old manuals (actually most of the library PDFs can't even be printed). You have to download them via your computer anyway, they're PDFs, you can't read while driving, so read (some of) them on your computer, gradually after hours or while dining. You will also figure out how to burn the Sartin Seminars MP3 files to CD for drive-time listening. Someone will help you with that, or you will discover how to do it - it can be done.

Dive in, but take your time, get a basis for asking questions (e.g. how did RDSS point to a wager in such and such a race - then watch and participate in discussions dissecting that race; then another, then another...). Keep some records about your own selections on a 20 race session (I know you know about sessions, from Dave Schwartz' writings). Don't bet money, but develop several 20-race sessions, and work on moving up the hit rate, then the ROI, then the dollar volume. You should eventually expect to be able to hit 50 - 60% of your wagers, bets including multiple horses, and double digit ROI ongoing is not out of the question at all - but it does take a lot of work, record keeping, self-reflection. Ask for help, do your own work, help will be given.

Then teach others.

Welcome

Ted

05-04-2009, 10:29 AM	#22
Charlie D Match Up Apprentice Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,105	Yes, read Bill V's post on that link and the Manuals, Follow Ups he advises. Bill has also started a new forum "Welcome to The Sartin Methodology" for any questions newbies have regarding the Sartin Methodology Don't worry Patrick, you don't need a degree in Mathematics, you just need to understand The Dynamics of Incremental Velocity and Energy Exertion. In other words, The Match Up __________________ "To me, The Match Up supercedes everything" Last edited by Charlie D; 05-04-2009 at 10:38 AM.

05-04-2009, 04:49 PM	#24
Charlie D Match Up Apprentice Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,105	Patrick Not everyone has driven a truck and i would think learning how to drive one would not be easy, but with a bit of instruction from experienced people like yourself and lots and lots of practice most people could. The same applies with The Methodology. The instruction from experienced people is in the Manual's, Follow Up's and demo's on Pace and cap. Get stuck into reading the Manual's etc and if your not sure about anything, just ask. The experienced people are more than willing to help you and others like you. Al the best __________________ "To me, The Match Up supercedes everything" Last edited by Charlie D; 05-04-2009 at 04:52 PM.

05-04-2009, 05:24 PM	#27
Charlie D Match Up Apprentice Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,105	Patrick Presuming you'll be using RDSS, go to RDSS forum and find Glossary of terms thread by Bill V. __________________ "To me, The Match Up supercedes everything" Last edited by Charlie D; 05-04-2009 at 05:28 PM.

05-04-2009, 05:43 PM	#28
noddub62 Budman Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 797	Kiss Hey PT, Welcome aboard. This is a great site with a lot of folks much more apt at handicapping than I. Sometimes the information posted is a bit overwhelming but don't worry just start as previously suggested and learn the basic concepts. In my opinion you can have too much information sometimes and find yourself weaving and bobbing because you missed that last race so you must not be doing it right and then you change, etc, etc. Hence the KISS in the message box. Using the basic concepts find what works and Keep It Simple Silly. Barb is a great example of someone starting from zero and becoming a good handicapper. Follow her advice. Ted extended development of a great program. The two hard parts are picking the correct pace line and proper wagercapping. And just to show you how good we all are, look at the contest results. Good Luck and don't be afraid to ask questions, Budman

05-04-2009, 09:43 PM	#30
Ted Craven Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada Posts: 8,855	Patrick, Check your Private Messages. Perhaps you have grasped, but I'll attempt to state it: Pace and Cap is dedicated to the Sartin Methodology and The Match Up, which is actually a 25 year plus evolution of ideas of Doc Sartin and numerous others (e.g. Jim 'The Hat' Bradshaw). But each experienced person here came in at a different point, from decades ago to a few years ago, to yesterday, and thus brings their preferences and slant on what they've understood and what software they used or currently use, if any. Unlike, say, HSH, or HTR, or CJ's Pacefigures, or Pizzolla's Black Magic, this Forum doesn't only focus on ONE software program (though RDSS is certainly the modern of Doc Sartin's cumulative work) - rather the binding element is the IDEAS developed by Sartin, Bradshaw et al, including the notion that the psychology of the game, the mental/emotional skills, are at least as important as the analytical and wager strategy aspects. That, plus the curious notion of a teaching community, hopefuly evocative of Sartin's practice, in his day, being a 'healing arts' organization as much as a business (or travelling salvation show, as some might put it...). Perhaps you can understand then, that folks, seeking to be helpful, are naturally inclined to give you each their best intentioned advice, their favourite screen shots, most thumbed manuals or Follow Up journal articles - i.e. what has worked for them. I am often overwhelmed by the cumulative generosity of most folks here, and have grown in understanding by orders of magnitude in recent years. You don't have to understand a lot of software. You can't even get that older software (legally). Use RDSS, watch the videos, establish some one-on-one tutilage. You don't need to print out the old manuals (actually most of the library PDFs can't even be printed). You have to download them via your computer anyway, they're PDFs, you can't read while driving, so read (some of) them on your computer, gradually after hours or while dining. You will also figure out how to burn the Sartin Seminars MP3 files to CD for drive-time listening. Someone will help you with that, or you will discover how to do it - it can be done. Dive in, but take your time, get a basis for asking questions (e.g. how did RDSS point to a wager in such and such a race - then watch and participate in discussions dissecting that race; then another, then another...). Keep some records about your own selections on a 20 race session (I know you know about sessions, from Dave Schwartz' writings). Don't bet money, but develop several 20-race sessions, and work on moving up the hit rate, then the ROI, then the dollar volume. You should eventually expect to be able to hit 50 - 60% of your wagers, bets including multiple horses, and double digit ROI ongoing is not out of the question at all - but it does take a lot of work, record keeping, self-reflection. Ask for help, do your own work, help will be given. Then teach others. Welcome Ted __________________ RDSS - Racing Decision Support System™

05-04-2009, 10:08 AM	#21
pktruckdriver Grade 1 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Saratoga Springs Posts: 1,547	Thanks Charlie It seems that i should read a few things 1st, am I correct, that part is hard for me, reading and comprehending fancy numbers/fractions and such, as I mentiioned, I'm a trucker, not a student of mathematics from MIT, a 4 finger typist with a broken computer, and i still stab on, and feel this may be work for me, but i may need to adjust how i learn it so I may learni it, if that makes sense, hope it did. I really would like to try to learn this as you all seem so nice and happy here, no griping and complaining this doesn't work and so forth, i like that, but I am a person with out many hours a day to read and study , but can study thru audio or dvd watching as Idrive all day doing nothing, but will that actually work and is there anything that fulfills that for me, reading manuals are a must I am sure, but just be honest here, they are hard for me to comprehend with out help, with help , i can do anything I feel, why not. well gotta run go too many miles to do today, don't ask how many cause it is too many. thanks again patrick

05-04-2009, 09:27 PM	#29
pktruckdriver Grade 1 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Saratoga Springs Posts: 1,547	POW is Pyschology of Winning , right? Patrick 310 pages of suggested beginners reading , just the manuals, not the follow-ups, whew , may be overwhelming just that number alone, especially for someone who really doesn't like to read that much, I have been spoiled with Audio books, but will have them printed up , it seems to be only a dime a page, or about 40.00, ceratainly doable for me, and will done, hopefully it will be fun reading , last real book I read was a Clancy Novel and WEB Griffin, over 10+ years ago. They were page turners, hope theses are... Thanks Patrick