Advice for the beginner

[TheSpokesman]

As many of you know I am pretty new to the forum. I have enjoyed my time here a great deal, and am looking forward to learning from all of you. If you have read some of my previous posts you will know that I am a licensed jockey agent and do a bit of handicapping, so the basic tenets of the game are very familiar to me. I am primarily a speed handicapper, but my personal methods involve giving consideration to the four factors of form, class, speed and pace.

I have only a passing familiarity with the Sartin Methodology. I want to learn more. My belief is that knowledge is power and that the more knowledge a handicapper has the greater his edge.

Here's where I need help from you guys and gals. Can any you spare a little time to walk me through this and answer a few questions? The first thing I need to know is where to begin. Remember, I know very little about the method so approach me as you would a three-year old child. Tell me where to start, what to read first. As I stated, I am a fairly good handicapper. For the purposes of learning this method, however, let's assume I know absolutely nothing. If you were explaining this to someone for the first time where would you begin? That's what I am after.

I truly appreciate any help given in helping me to learn the method.

The Spokesman

[JimG]

Originally Posted by TheSpokesman

Here's where I need help from you guys and gals. Can any you spare a little time to walk me through this and answer a few questions? The first thing I need to know is where to begin. Remember, I know very little about the method so approach me as you would a three-year old child. Tell me where to start, what to read first. As I stated, I am a fairly good handicapper. For the purposes of learning this method, however, let's assume I know absolutely nothing. If you were explaining this to someone for the first time where would you begin? That's what I am after.

I truly appreciate any help given in helping me to learn the method.

The Spokesman

If you are talking about the Sartin Methodology and want to understand the readouts, I recommend going to the Pace and Cab Library on this forum and read and re-read the follow-ups. I think that is a good place to begin.

If you are interested in winning at the races, you will likely need to branch out from just using class, speed, pace, and form. At the very least, you need to find unique numbers that are very good and not available to the masses. Do not be afraid to lose races and always insist on getting value from your bets. There are a lot of good handicappers that use the classical factors mostly found in the racing form and they lose year after year due to the takeout.

Best of luck.

Jim

[TheSpokesman]

Thank you for you reply!

I didn't mean to imply that I don't consider secondary factors in my handicapping. I do, but only after the primary considerations.

I have indeed visited the library and am very impressed with the amount of material. In regards to the Follow-Ups these are great, but remember three-year-old here. I'm sure there is a central text which outlines the method, right? That would seem to be the logical place to begin. Which text would that be?

[TheSpokesman]

Oh, and I definitely understand the concept of value. Personally, I see the value in creating one's own money line and in asking, "What price do I need to bet this horse?"
That being said, I have no problem accepting 7-5 on a horse I think should be odds-on.

[shoeless]

If your a fairly good handicapper already then no need to get into looking at computer screens and readouts I tried doing so and it just confused me even more.Not until I went into using Total Pace Ratings did I begin to start winning.I really dont understand why more people dont use them I guess because they are so simple people figure they dont work.I have a manual program I use so it's a cheap way to get really excellent numbers.I suggest you read Pace Makes the Race but the 2nd version that Hambleton and Schmidt wrote.

[noddub62]

Hey Mr. TheSpokesman,

Good to have you here with your insights from other aspects of the sport.

My advice on using any of the Sartin Methodology programs this site supports is to follow Bill V's method of working a race, especially the ones with notes explaining why he chose a particular pace line. Following Bill's (or really the Doc's) outline is relatively simple and fundamental. It's a KISS.

I'm betting that you have a pretty good eye for selecting pace lines so with that being the case I would pick the lines and turn the crank on RDSS. RDSS is an amazing program and you can use as many or as few readouts as you want.

Once you are familar with Bill's deal, check out The Hat and Richies' post for the match up. Good stuff there and even if you are not a match up guy there is good stuff there. Example: runner is 5th tiered in BLBL but is only early and steals the race because of no pace in race.

Good luck to you and keep the posts coming.

Bud

[TheSpokesman]

Thanks for these replies fellas. You've given me a good starting point into understanding the methodology.

I must admit that I am pretty comfortable with my handicapping method, but I'm always willing to accept that there are others who know more about this great game than I. That's why I'm here participating. When I set about the process of learning something I want to jump full-in and leave no stone unturned.

Shoeless, you make a good point about the confusion of sorting through endless data. I tend to be very systematic in my evaluation of a specific race. At the end of that evaluation I will try to look back and see if I have missed anything.

[JimG]

Originally Posted by TheSpokesman

Oh, and I definitely understand the concept of value. Personally, I see the value in creating one's own money line and in asking, "What price do I need to bet this horse?"
That being said, I have no problem accepting 7-5 on a horse I think should be odds-on.

I haven't bet a 7-5 shot to win in over 5 years and would not dream of doing so. Unless your records indicate you can win money at that odds range long term, I would rethink betting horses at such low odds. What I would do in those races if I thought the horse should be even money is to pass. The track take tends to eat us alive with such a small margin in your value vs the horse's odds.

Creating your own line is excellent if you have a method of handicapping that you are very comfortable with. I do agree with something Shoeless said above, do not be afraid of simplicity. TPR Ratings are decent and the book is worthwhile. Many players tend to over analyze the handicapping process.

[shipper]

Originally Posted by TheSpokesman

As many of you know I am pretty new to the forum. I have enjoyed my time here a great deal, and am looking forward to learning from all of you. If you have read some of my previous posts you will know that I am a licensed jockey agent and do a bit of handicapping, so the basic tenets of the game are very familiar to me. I am primarily a speed handicapper, but my personal methods involve giving consideration to the four factors of form, class, speed and pace.

I have only a passing familiarity with the Sartin Methodology. I want to learn more. My belief is that knowledge is power and that the more knowledge a handicapper has the greater his edge.

Here's where I need help from you guys and gals. Can any you spare a little time to walk me through this and answer a few questions? The first thing I need to know is where to begin. Remember, I know very little about the method so approach me as you would a three-year old child. Tell me where to start, what to read first. As I stated, I am a fairly good handicapper. For the purposes of learning this method, however, let's assume I know absolutely nothing. If you were explaining this to someone for the first time where would you begin? That's what I am after.

I truly appreciate any help given in helping me to learn the method.

The Spokesman

Spokesman: I would offer up two ideas... Check out "The Essential Introduction to The Original Sartin Methodology Basic Manual--A Procedural and Conceptual Guide" by Howard Sartin. Also known as the "Yellow Manual".
secondly, there is a "Glossary of Terms--Terms originated by and indigenous to the Sartin Methodology" that would be helpful. From that point, if so inclined, I'd test run Ted Craven's RDSS program to bring it together...

[TheSpokesman]

Now, That's what I was looking for. Yellow Manual, got it. Thanks, Shipper!