Why Calif. will get away with this crime

[Charlie D]

Horseplayers are stupid.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...ill&id=5551276


(Thanks go to Horseplayersbet on PA for the link to this article.)


All the best.

[Charlie D]

To go along with the good article by Bill Finley above , here http://blog.horseplayersassociation....s-retamas.html is a good blog article from the guys at HANA.


Al the best.

[Ted Craven]

Originally Posted by Charlie D

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...ill&id=5551276


(Thanks go to Horseplayersbet on PA for the link to this article.)


All the best.

I read Bill Finley's article and generally I respect Bill Finley. Just as I also, for the record, think (like the choir) that reducing takeout is better than increasing it for the long term health of the sport. Really - I've read and subscribe to ALL the arguments,

But - think what is being suggested from an 'in the trenches' point of view: consider his example of a $81.04 Exacta in NY turning into a $76.20 Exacta in California due to increased Exacta pool takeout proposed.

Consider a 'brute-force' 3 horse Exacta box for $12. The NY Exacta is the equivalent of 5.78 - 1 odds and the California Exacta is equivalent to 5.35 - 1 odds. (Better odds each if you don't have to use 6 bets in that box).

If one possess the means to capture a fair share of such Exactas at a track (i.e. because you have good analysis and wager decision tools/skills) do I understand I'm being advised to NOT take this opportunity because of the few cents less payoff? Do you NOT bet on a horse to win because its final odds at post-time may change by half an odds point? I call that splitting hairs, or cutting off your nose to spite your face - choose your metaphor.

I understand that such takeout results in a few more Exactas of the overall total being below the line where you may not bet on them due to insufficient payoff. But then you still just have to do what you already have to do - pick and choose your wagers according to expected value, whether Win, Exacta, Tri, whatever.

I agree with Finley - not that bettors are stupid - but that they will largely continue to bet as usual. Perhaps I fancy myself in a more 'skilled' class of bettor, but I don't see why anyone using computer software or in membership at P&C or PA should not think the same of themselves. We should all join HANA, all sign petitions, all write our track presidents and congressmen if we have one - then stop threatening to hold our breath and turn purple already and resume taking the 5.35 - 1, or the possibly newly smaller equivalent for California Trifectas and Pick 3s.

Are high takeouts responsible for you not making money betting on horses? As Michael Pizzolla might say 'did the jockey stiff your horse?' In otherwords, is it someone else's responsabality? Baloney!

An educated, dedicated analyst/bettor can make money betting on horses. The solution to some of horse-racing's alleged 'woes' is to educate the existing and potential new betting public on how to do it properly. The high takeout is only 'killing you' if you are below a certain effectiveness as a horseplayer. Get above the required breakeven level and it doesn't matter so much the takeout. Then mutuel pools will rise, a smaller portion will be needed for purses, increases will not continue, and may decrease.

You have to sharpen your game to stay even with increased takeouts, all the while being an activist and may I say 'evangelist' for the game of horse-racing. How many people will Bill Finley's 'enthusiasm' attract to the sport, compared to the enthusiasm and role-model of those who are quietly or joyfully working away at their game either breaking-even or making ridiculous profit on the same Del Mar meets everyone else is 'gagging' on?

Am I wrong on this?

Ted

[noddub62]

Well said Ted. I think you are right on.

Bud

[Bill V.]

Bill V. Uses the Thank You button

California is a fair system meaning the tracks pay there own way
No casinos no checks from The Indians No "gifts" for purses
from Sacramento

To put a good product out there and to get bigger fields the answer
is to increase the rate for majority of there customers
entertainment Ted said it all. Well put
Let the powerful Hana do its thing and have fun
and focus about your on skills

[Charlie D]

Played Retama Park for fisrt time today because 12% Take was flagged up over on PA and I'll be back playing Retama Park tomorrow. Retama Park is selling an excellent product with LOW Take and i respectfully suggest to you and other bettors, do not ignore this little gem in the racing world.







All the best.

[For The Lead]

For those that are not capable of making money at horse racing/handicapping, it really doesn't matter, does it? They will lose at whatever their losing rate is, amplified by the increase in "take". They will go broke sooner, rather than later.

For those who are capable of winning money from horse racing/handicapping, you will continue to win, albeit less, based on the increase in "take".

Like any person in business, you must take whatever actions you deem necessary in order to make up the difference if that difference significantly impacts your income. Each individual must pursue whatever remedy they feel is best for them.

[Charlie D]

If history is any kind of guide at all

.

In a few more years the Take Out could be 20/22% win, 30/32% Exacta. 36/ 38% Tri, Picks. Few more years after that, maybe higher and all that will be because, just like in the past.

Very few horseplayers ever react to takeout increases, or decreases

[JEFF KENT]

[Paragraph deleted - political comment, take it elsewhere.]

Holly park charges $8.00 to walk in the front gate then $5.75
for a form,they say yeah but you get a program,who the hell needs a
program when the form has the entrant,s #.I was in las vegas sams
town race and sports book $0.00 admission $1.00 forms very nice place
cal.simulcast is a "WITCH,S BREW" OF cast off
races,from deal,s that some hack politician
cut with some other track.

Now they raise the take-out again [deleted - see above].
Plus we have to listen to
Trevor Denman+Vic Stauffer good god they are horrible!!!!

Play real dirt tracks were their are
9+ entrants any class 2,500 + up claimers are
the way to go Tracks like new mexico-suffolk
are perfect for matching and for RDSS.

[Ted Craven]

Originally Posted by JEFF KENT

[Paragraph deleted - political comment, take it elsewhere.]

Holly park charges $8.00 to walk in the front gate then $5.75
for a form,they say yeah but you get a program,who the hell needs a
program when the form has the entrant,s #.I was in las vegas sams
town race and sports book $0.00 admission $1.00 forms very nice place
cal.simulcast is a "WITCH,S BREW" OF cast off
races,from deal,s that some hack politician
cut with some other track.

Now they raise the take-out again [deleted - see above].
Plus we have to listen to
Trevor Denman+Vic Stauffer good god they are horrible!!!!

Play real dirt tracks were their are
9+ entrants any class 2,500 + up claimers are
the way to go Tracks like new mexico-suffolk
are perfect for matching and for RDSS.

Jeff, so why do you pay them at Hollywood Park? Have you heard about ADWs? Some even provide video - you can use the mute button whenever Trevor or Vic start to speak. Plus you don't even have to get dressed.

If you don't know how to win more money playing races in Socal than the charges you complain about above, I can recommend some good software.

Folks, don't be confused by this poster! He's right - Suffolk and New Mexico tracks are perfect for The Match Up and RDSS - but so is every other track on the continent. The other guy's mismanagement is not the cause of one's own failure at betting horse races. Hold up a mirror and you will see precisely who holds the key to success and failure.

We should do all we can to change politicians' and inept racetrack management's beliefs about how to grow this sport including betting where we feel our current skills get us the best edge and return for our time and money spent. To do otherwise is to display to those who have eyes to see that you truly believe you are a helpless gambler, subject to the manipulation and whims of others.

You can make a solid profit betting on Southern California racing. Period. Even if you pay the above Hollywood Park admission, and even if you have to listen to the current track announcers (who many people actually enjoy - a difference of opinion which makes a horse race...)

Politics belongs in the 'Off Topic' Forum.

Ted