The 'Red-board' Discussion!

[atlasaxis]

Originally Posted by For The Lead

Actually, you have no idea what you are talking about and it appears several others feel the same way.

You don't understand what this site is about.
It is about helping others.
You don't understand what this thread is about.
It is about helping others.
You don't understand what the teaching area is about.
it is about helping others.
And you certainly can't identify red boarding.
So let me help you out.

IF you had taken the time to read my posts, of which there are many, before shooting your mouth off, you would learn that I don't "red board and/or back fit" anything.
In addition, I don't recall anyone who "red boards" LOSERS.

I started this thread with people like you in mind. That's why I took a couple of consecutive days and used every maiden race carded at the tracks I was watching on those days. I used the very same guidelines I always use for contender selection and paceline selection, that way there would be no question as to which horses would be the contenders and no question as to which pacelines would be used. I posted the winners AND the losers. (odd for a red boarder, don't you think)
Before starting this thread I also commented on statistical information taken from my database of more than 600,000 races and more than 5,000,000 horses and stated what I would be looking for in order to find the most logical winning horse.
So if you aren't able to put the pieces together, let me help. Red boarding is taking any given race and "finding a way" to get the winner. That isn't what I do. I lay out a set of guidelines on contender and paceline selection and follow them in every single race. In the end, the winner is either among the contenders or it is not. That's the reason there are some races here where I wrote "the winner was not among my contenders". WOW! Imagine that!! a guy who red boards losers!!!

Most people who frequent this site are pretty much aware of the guidelines I use for picking contenders and pacellines. If you aren't familiar with them, perhaps you should read more of my posts.

And again, most people who frequent this site know that I use my own software. Contender selection and line selection are done on an automated basis. My software doesn't know if the race is in 15 minutes, tomorrow, next month or a year ago, it picks the same contenders and pacelines no matter when I run the program. Last I heard, computers don't red board, they just do what they were programed to do.

On this site you can find the Sartin Library. In that library you can find all the "follow ups" and "manuals" for the Sartin Methodology. Have you ever read any of this material? If you thought my posts were funny, then you will absolutely die laughing at the stuff you will find in the library. It's full of red boarding!!! (by your standards) We call it "educational material" and "things to learn from". And you know what? There isn't one race that is discussed or dissected there that was in advance of the race. Not one! That's because it is presented for educational purposes. Most, if not all, follow ups have what is called "the problem race". It is a race that presents specific problems and it is presented in order for others to learn how to handle races like this in the future should they encounter one like it.

Finally, I don't think there is a person on this site that "worships the ground I walk on" (your words, not mine), but I think there are those who appreciate that I take the time and make the effort to try and help. If, in fact, my posts do help them...then I am happy about that.

Blah, blah, blah blah....just try posting some of your selctions BEFORE they run mr hot shot teacher. BEFORE they run, you do understand what that means don't you???

[atkinsrr]

FTL...I'll bet that guy has never read a Follow-Up...he'd probably make fun of "Doc" too

[Bill V.]

Hey everybody lets stay within the code of conduct

I don't see how personal attacks are any good. I suggest if you don't like the teaching area
and the teachers methods that you just go down to the selections area and post
your races how you feel they should be presented

Bill

[Ted Craven]

I agree with Bill (and others), and I think we have settled the difference between 'red-boarding' and examples using in the teaching process.

A good example of 'red-boarding' would be to post in the Selections Forum that you got such and such a race after the fact, without much attempt at making a point 'how you did it', what the analysis and wager decision process was. ALL the posts in the Teaching Forum are supposed to help people apply consistent analysis processes to repeating patterns of races.

As such, a person should be able to take any given example, or lesson, and apply it to similar types of races, for example some of the Maiden races described, or races with dominant Early horses, and repeat the pattern - in advance. Whether the analysis wins a given future race or not is independent of the lesson being pointed out. These patterns that FTL and others are describing here - in some detail and at some expense of time taken - don't just fall from the sky untested: we're describing stuff that is the bedrock of the Sartin Methodology. Whether you use RDSS or not to implement them (and FTL only uses RDSS for description purposes: he has his own home-grown Sartin-influenced software) - this is stuff everyone can learn from.

Which is what PaceandCap is all about. I think we can now set aside the 'red-boarding' discussion and move forward with BOTH learning and teaching AND posting Selections in advance (for those who wish to do that) and bragging over correct predictions made!

OK!

Ted

[atlasaxis]

Originally Posted by Ted Craven

I agree with Bill (and others), and I think we have settled the difference between 'red-boarding' and examples using in the teaching process.

Ted I’m not sure who “we’ is but it certainly doesn’t represent the 5 people who emailed me and thanked me for saying what I did in my first post.

A good example of 'red-boarding' would be to post in the Selections Forum that you got such and such a race after the fact, without much attempt at making a point 'how you did it', what the analysis and wager decision process was.

Red boarding is also a post race analysis as to why the horse should have been played.

ALL the posts in the Teaching Forum are supposed to help people apply consistent analysis processes to repeating patterns of races. As such, a person should be able to take any given example, or lesson, and apply it to similar types of races, for example some of the Maiden races described, or races with dominant Early horses, and repeat the pattern - in advance.

If the forum is in fact “supposed to help people apply consistent analysis processes to repeating patterns of races”, then the one teaching should be able to demonstrate an in depth analysis BEFORE a race is run, no?

Whether the analysis wins a given future race or not is independent of the lesson being pointed out.

Then what was the purpose of the in depth analysis (redboard) if not to win future races? If it’s valid AFTER a race then the same indepth analysis should be provided BEFORE a race and not just throw up a screen shot of a missed, but could have had if you only played it THIS way, $50 winner.

I’m not the only one seeing it this way but hey, it is your messageboard. Just don’t get upset when someone calls redboarding/backfitting when it’s apparent to more than one person.

Out.

[vjmastrey]

This is my first post on this board or any board. I have been a member for less than one year. I have learned a tremendous amount from this website and the people on it. I see no reason to tear someone down who is trying to help others. So THANK YOU FTL, BILL V, TED and anyone else I have missed who posts interesting and thoughtful presentations of the races. You have made me a better handicapper and I am grateful for that.

[noddub62]

You don't seem to understand the purpose of the "teaching thread". It isn't to "red board" as you say --- it is too teach. And it does do that.

I'm sure that you have read several or maybe many handicapping books that show examples ( I think I have all of the older best sellers) and they all show examples of "after the fact examples"! Is that in your opinion "redboarding"? I doubt it, but that is all that has been done that you are so critical of.

FTL has opened a new door for me and I'm sure others on the thread that you are so critical of proclaiming "redboarding". I'm in the process of checking the maiden play out and I can say right now that it's putting $$$ in the bank for me.

You need to chill and learn from it so you will profit from it as well. Don't be so harsh on our good teachers.

Thanks much FLT as that was a very, very good lesson.

Take care Altasaxis,

Budman

[pktruckdriver]

WOW, this goes on without me, amazing.

I thought I was was the one who stirred up things around here, and so I took a break.

This site does teach you things, sometimes the teaching is "off centered", but never-the-less it is teaching still the same and the intention is to make others better, plain and simple.

People take time to post here and others may only read here , lurking for years and never posting, just learning, would be nice if they said Hi once in awhile, becaue it would make the teachers feel better, no matter what they say, a compliment once in awhile does the soul good.

Ok, I am done,(here)

Patrick

[dlivery]

Seems we have gotten a little off topic let's get this thread back on topic as I have enjoyed this thread lets move on to the topic at hand. We can all learn and earn as we go along.

[chris]

Am not unsympathetic to any of the comments about "The Learn to Win" posters and their detractors. Many ways to go about this. If there is a concern, it's that it does not involve real bets! I don't know how to get around that, it seems to be built in.

Resolution of the tension, that comes with betting real money, is what I believe keeps many handicappers from experience finanacial success at the betting windows. Believe this is one you'll have to find your own way around; knowledge alone will not work here.

Regards,
chris