Commentary on RDSS/TS Data usage

[Speed Figure]

Ted, I have respect for you, but I find it crazy that your using bris info in your software and you have a deal with TrackMaster. Ranchwest simply had a rating called VDC and you basically made him change it because you didn’t want people thinking his software had something to do with RDSS. Do people think your software uses Bris data? You charge money for your software, but take info from bris for free. It's pretty clear that Prime Power and Profit Line play a major role in your software. As a bris customer who pays $125 for unlimited data this is pretty crazy.

[dadams6357]

This what you call capitalism at work.
Don

[cratman]

Originally Posted by Speed Figure

Ted, I have respect for you, but I find it crazy that your using bris info in your software and you have a deal with TrackMaster. Ranchwest simply had a rating called VDC and you basically made him change it because you didn’t want people thinking his software had something to do with RDSS. Do people think your software uses Bris data? You charge money for your software, but take info from bris for free. It's pretty clear that Prime Power and Profit Line play a major role in your software. As a bris customer who pays $125 for unlimited data this is pretty crazy.

Not clear at all to me. My understanding is that BRIS produces separate ratings produced using different factors. They are available for free if one is logged into TwinSpires. For me, the value is there with RDSS and would be there even if only the library was available. Just want to know how to sign up for another year.

[glass_oni0n]

Hi all, relatively new to the forum and RDSS but just wanted to add my two cents.

I've found that using the free Bris forums in concert with RDSS is the best way to go for me and I'd argue that they compliment each other. At the very least, the Bris forums save me a lot of time in keeping track logs, as their information works as a very competent "80% solution," to doing the grunt work. I also generally use their ESP designation for horses as a way to marry the biases they show, but like with RDSS, I don't always agree with their designation. I don't think the information of one makes the other extraneous, I think they both make each other more useful.

I've also found that it really doesn't take a lot of effort to do the RX screen by hand using an excel sheet. It would be tremendous if the problem was fixed! But if that can't happen, I find it only adds about 5 minutes on to my process to copy VDC and CSR off of RDSS and then go to TwinSpires and grab PL and BPP. Some may not like it, but it makes me feel like I get to know the horses that much more, and being a daily writer of my picks for the NY circuit this helps.

I do have a question in regards to how RDSS ranks horses in ties. If say two horses are tied in PL (something you see often) would it rank the horses to six (1-1-2-3-4-5) or to 5 (1-1-3-4-5)?

Brian

[Ted Craven]

Originally Posted by Speed Figure

Ted, I have respect for you, but I find it crazy that your using bris info in your software and you have a deal with TrackMaster. Ranchwest simply had a rating called VDC and you basically made him change it because you didn’t want people thinking his software had something to do with RDSS. Do people think your software uses Bris data? You charge money for your software, but take info from bris for free. It's pretty clear that Prime Power and Profit Line play a major role in your software. As a bris customer who pays $125 for unlimited data this is pretty crazy.

Speed Figure - I can understand why you might come to the conclusion that BRIS Prime Power and ProfitLine figs are 'major' to RDSS - but that is a misunderstanding from not actually using RDSS and from the current prominence given it by a few users. FWIW, you will also notice those same RDSS users' posts about success and race analysis have continued unabated and without reference to those currently-absent ratings (and thanks guys).

Those BRIS ratings ARE demonstrably useful, and publicly accessible - though they are not 'critical' nor do their absence render RDSS any less capable than it ever was. They are sort of a 'jump-start' to some who want to get going fast and efficiently to a race analysis. You can do an equivalent analysis by examining current form and the traditional (and newer) factors, along with triangulation with the tote board or pricing grids.

I expect to hear from more users on their alternate/classical strategies for analysis using the rest of the RDSS/Sartin toolset. Maybe you will find that enlightening, maybe you're not really interested and no worries - having your own satisfying BRIS-based tools. The TS Ratings and live tote will return to RDSS, soon. People have continued to use those missing ratings all along (fetch it from the public TS website, by hand). When re-introduced, they will be opt-in, or hand-entered, or something convenient. Hell, some people make their own power figs, or use HDW or TFUS or even Jcapper high-level figs mixed with Sartin stuff for the same reasons - external figs are a 'triangulation' of data from all sources, not unlike tote pricing across different pools represent the sum of all opinions. RDSS is a high-level tool and I am not so unaware as to presume it is the only valuable tool serious people use. In fact, I aim to support that.

If TwinSpires/BRIS didn't want people to have freely available access to Prime Power or ProfitLine figs, they would not put it in the public for unfettered access: they would put it behind a paywall. Those figs alone are insufficient to be profitable. Mixed with other existing Sartin figs, they are helpful. From the beginning of RDSS and even while Doc Sartin was still with us here, I have used data from sources other than Equibase/TrackMaster when the data was unavailable from them and with their knowledge (e.g. tote, certain power-ratings).

I look forward to hearing from others like newcomer glass_oni0n who are not stymied by this temporary hiccup, or who continue to use all the other RDSS tools.

Regarding VDC and Ranchwest - if I sell Kentucky Fried Chicken with 11 secret herbs and spices, and you also sell chicken which you style Kentucky Fried Chicken just with a different recipe and not tasting the same and piggy-backing on my brand, then I will complain. There is NO CHANCE Ranchwest's VDC fig uses the same formula or produces the same output/rankings as the classical Sartin VDC rating in RDSS - no.chance. Therefore, to help people avoid confusion - and also not to water down my brand - he agreed he should rename it. Simple, and entirely amicable as I recall.

Ted

[stormbringer]

I'm for ted!!!!!!

[ignacio todoberto bernal]

Hey boss.......agree 100%

[Ted Craven]

Originally Posted by stormbringer

I'm for ted!!!!!!

Storm - there's no 'telling him' involved. Only, after a bit of deliberation, stating what I intend to do with this issue, and that there is a broader perspective on RDSS/Sartin to be had than might be evident from cursory inspection. I have no beef with our friend Speed Figure, or anyone else, for that matter . Only clarity.

Ted

[stormbringer]

What ever you say ……. (I got your back.) oh noble leader!

[Mitch44]

"As a Bris customer who pays $125 for unlimited data this is pretty crazy."

" This what you call capitalism at work." Say what!!!

And from Ted;" If Twin Spires /BRIS didn't want people to have freely available access to Prime Power or Profitline figs, they would not put it in the public for unfettered access: they would put it behind a paywall."

Well, the fact is that it is behind a paywall, they sell this and it's not free. It's being pirated illegally. Profit and Prime are owned by BRIS and only they have sole rights of use. Members such as myself can get it free or essentially free because I use their platform to bet, and they provide it for the business I give them in return.

When you open RDSS and see that logo at the bottom take me to TwinSpires, that button is unauthorized.

RDSS has in the past had problems and will continue to in the future as they change their algorithms to stop the steal.

The solution is making a contract and pay a fee to obtain it legally and if need be, raise the price for RDSS. No different than the contract with TrackMaster or Equipbase.

They also have other tricks such as those numbers not being always correct. I.e. Prime being 3 or 4 point incorrect which is huge. I've always gotten them directly from the source therefore I know their accurate.

The bottom line is there is no such thing as justifiable stealing except in the mind of the criminal thief and those with morals of an ally cat used to justify it.

Mitch44