"fighters and will to win horses"

[JEFF KENT]

"HAT" Often was quoted as saying he loved fighters.
Watch horses from the top of stretch to the
finish,you can tell which horses are actually trying to win.
Some will hang not from being tired,but they dont want
to be "THE BOSS HOSS". We always spend our time
searching for top form horses,why not spend more
time looking for horses that want to win today.
Combine match up freindly horses and a will to win
today,and you have a "POTENT" combination!!

johnhenry_lifetimepps.pdf THESE TWO ARE GOOD EXAMPLES
JEFF KENT

[Bill V.]

Wow Thank you Jeff

Very cool lifetime Past Performance chart and beautiful pictures
Wow 0ver 6 million earned and ran in a $20,000 claimer early on

Thank you very much
Bill

[Tim Y]

Maiden day May 20, 1977 owners Collen Maderae and Dorthea Limco at the now defunct Jefferson Downs, Kenner Louisiana ran in a 4.5 maiden claimer

The well known Phil Marino (never heard of the guy) trainer

HUMBLE beginnings for John Henry

Rubin tells a story when the bloodstock agent told him he wasn't thinking and bought a gelding, Rubin supposedly asked "What color is that?"

[reckless]

Originally Posted by Tim Y

Maiden day May 20, 1977 owners Collen Maderae and Dorthea Limco at the now defunct Jefferson Downs, Kenner Louisiana ran in a 4.5 maiden claimer

The well known Phil Marino (never heard of the guy) trainer

HUMBLE beginnings for John Henry

Rubin tells a story when the bloodstock agent told him he wasn't thinking and bought a gelding, Rubin supposedly asked "What color is that?"

hello Tim Y, and everyone:

I haven't contributed much to the board but I'd like to share a thought or two. First, thanks alot to Jeff for supplying the John Henry pp's, which jarred some nice memories for me.

Phil Marino is one of racing's all-time nitwits, easily as bad a trainer as one could find. He also failed as a jockey if memory serves me well. A few year's back he had a stable at Monmouth Park, and would send horses to Phila. Park as well. I overcame the silly idea of asking him to ride my jockey (I was a jockey's agent there at the time.)

I am pretty sure he didn't win a single race and I believe that currently he has horses at Mountaineer Park. Why I can't figure out. Also, by word of mouth, I've been told that he never took it lightly when people razzed him about John Henry.

When Jefferson Downs (now defunct and located in Kenner, La., on Lake Pontchetrain, near the Airport and 10 or so miles west of New Orleans) was in operation, in the track kitchen, there was a very large 'win' photo of that maiden win of John Henry. The lone person in the winner's circle looking like a bum was Phil Marino.

I once interviewed Larry Munster, a former top-tier Louisiana-based jockey who was a JnD steward at the time I was there (1991). I asked him this: 'How good was John Henry and did you ever think John Henry would become the champion horse that he became?'

Munster smiled and said: 'Well, I can't really tell you how good John Henry was because I fell off as soon as they opened the gate." (See race on July 29).

Sam Rubin was one of those obnoxious, loud wealthy guys that hung out at the bar upstairs at Aqueduct, years before they built that nice, enclosed restaurant. He was a successful bicycle importer and was loaded, so to speak, not to mention that he drank alot and loved to be touted on a horse.

One day, as often was the case, he had a few too many and said loudly, 'I gotta get myself a horse. Find me a good horse. I'll pay $25,000 for a good one.' He said that basically out loud and not to anyone in particular, although more than a few horsemen were present in the immediate area at the time.

Soon thereafter, a pretty good trainer, blood stock agent and all-around hustler and operator, James Ferraro, told Rubin he found him a horse and the people want -- get this -- $25,000! Needless to say, Ferraro sold John Henry to Sam Rubin, and history was in the making.

On more than one occasion in those early years, I'd hear stories of the John Henry pre-Big Time New York legend. Most of those stories centered around how it was very hard to sell John Henry--poor pedigree, not real pretty, and a very tempermental sort, who would act up, never train, etc. I once heard that at one time they asked $5,000 for him and they couldn't find a buyer. He was for sale throughout Louisiana, Kentucky, Ohio...every where it seems. No interest at all until they found a New York sucker. (In fairness, who really got the last-laugh? Sam Rubin, of course).

So, needless to say, when Ferraro got Rubin to ante up $25,000 for John Henry, a lot of money was made on the transaction all around.

More later.....

[reckless]

Here's the rest of the story :

Owner Rubin now needed a trainer and Ferraro recommended one, too, probably as a service to Sam but more-so, probably as a matter of quelching away some guilt. Bobby Donato became Rubin's trainer of John Henry on Ferraro's say-so.

The capable Donato up to that point was a meat and potatoes small-outfit trainer who had a modicum of success on both the tough Big A and Monmouth circuits. He, too, was a pretty good, old school operator, reflecting the times in the race horse training profession when it meant more to steal a race than it was to win two races honestly.

Rightfully, Donato will forever be honored as the man who first put John Henry on the grass. While that alone should place Bobby in all-time high regard in racing annels, there have been stories that the purpose of that June 7, 1978 race was to simply give John Henry a race and cloud his dope and to cash a bet the next time the horse ran on dirt. A reasonable insinuation, I might add. But, someone forgot to tell John Henry, who won by 14 lengths!

While this is here-say, of course, my source did work for Donato and he did tell me that in the winner's circle that day, Bobby was the only one in the picture with a frown on his face.

I wasn't there, of course, to verify Donato's frame of mind, but, the rest, as they say, is history.

Now, skip to few years later, well after John Henry had been established as one of racing's greats, I visited a trainer the morning of that day's feature race at Belmont Park. I was working for NYRA at the time. After wishing the trainer luck, he whispered to me, "Go bet a few bucks on my horse. He's gonna surprise John Henry. Listen to me. Bet a few dollars."

That trainer was Gilberto Puentes, and his horse was Peat Moss, who missed beating John Henry by the shortest of heads at 50-1 in the Jockey Club Gold Cup! Plus, Peat Moss' jockey would claim foul against Willie Shoemaker. The pp's provided by Jeff shows a 'bore in' trip note so maybe the jock had a legit beef. I think Peat Moss's rider was Frank Lovato Jr., but not 100% sure. Peat Moss was a cheap claimer earlier in the year but did prove to have a prowess for going a marathon route.

Also later that very same afternoon, I visited with Victor (Lefty) Nickerson, who trained John Henry after Donato and trained him whenever the gelding was shipped east by Ron McAnally later in the JH's career.

Some younger fans may not recall Nickerson, but Victor was one of the great horseman of his time, a likable, erudite, educated man. He took a liking to me the first day we ever met when I worked at NYRA and always was very helpful to me. He trained many, many nice horses and won the Grade I Coaching Club American Oaks (the filly equivalent of the Belmont Stakes, also run then at 1 1-2 miles) named Magazine.

With no disrespect at all toward Ron McAnally, a deserving Hall of Fame trainer, I always felt that Lefty Nickerson was the best trainer John Henry ever had.

We were talking as I stood right in front of John Henry's stall looking at Lefty when he said, "Now be very careful. He's a bit of a rogue, you know."

At that exact, precise moment, I then looked left at John Henry. He was in the farest corner of his stall and as soon as we made eye contact he quickly lunged at me. He was at me in a flash and all I could do was just to duck straight down. Half his body seemed to go over the webbing and he just as fast moved back to that far part of his stall. Thankfully, I wasn't as fat then as I am now, or he'd have taken my head off, for sure.

Needless to say, I was ashen, in addition to being scared s***less. Nickerson looked at me and said: 'Told you. Now, get away from there before someone gets killed.' Something told me that he didn't mean John Henry.

As the John Henry legend grew and grew on his way to becoming a perennial Horse of the Year, I made it a point to try and see him run as often as possible. Simulcasting was just really getting started so I missed many more of his races than I viewed. I rarely bet on him due to his often very short odds; I never bet against him though.

Despite his humble parentage, he truly was a Boss Hoss and real Fighter---the type all fans and those in the sport simply can't love enough.

Sam Rubin paid $25,000 and won over $6.6 million with John Henry and I don't believe he ever put another nickel in the game. Shameless.

Sorry, I took up some time and space here. Thanks for allowing me the chance to share some nice, old memories.

reckless

** thanks for sharing Reckless** RichieP

<s></s>

[JEFF KENT]

Is no slouch either,he came west as a 4yr.old,in 6 races
4 at santa anita 2 at holly park,smashed the 7 furlong
tr. Record,which had stood thru many,many years,and
stood till s.a. Tore out the dirt and put in poly,set a new
world record for 10 furlongs handily!!! Etc. Etc.

Spectacular bid most people do not know that he had
a twin that died at birth,truly a freak!!


Jeff kent

[clore1030]

To Reckless:

>>Sorry, I took up some time and space here.<<

Perish that thought! I loved it, thank you so much.

You brought back some memories, especially when you mentioned Gil Puentes. My ex and I used to go to the track often, but she was one who just scrutinized the longshots and would throw out the rest of the field.

Two trainers that she would always examine closely were Puentes and a man named Richard Nieminski. They didn't have extremely high win % scores, but they brought in more than their fair share of boxcar mutuels. I once caught one of the latter's best bonanzas, when a horse named Prince of Gold broke its maiden on the inner dirt when stretched out for the first time. It paid 84 dollars.

There was a trainer on the NY circuit at the time named Albert Schweitzer (!) and he was a claim box specialist. He picked up a horse named Paui's Hero who won three races in less than two weeks, with one race occuring only three days later than the first. If I recall properly, the horse ended up taking six in a row.

He claimed Patriot's Dream, who was later highlighted in Beyer's first book, and who went from 25-30K sprinter to winning a minor stakes on the IDT.

He also claimed a Chicago shipper named Really Cooking who went on to win several in a row and who was always in there trying.

Schweitzer was one of the few who had the nerve to claim a horse away from Frank Martin, but I forget that one's name. "Pancho" was a bit of a bully, and would use Sig Sommer's wallet to wipe out your barn if you dared to claim a horse from him.

Like another trainer of the same period, Alan B. Marcus, Schweitzer specialized in finding good stock from mid-range claimers and turning them into consistent board-hitters while stepping them up in class. Marcus made a claim that blew me away - a 75K swipe! I don't recall that he got his money's worth though and not long after, I heard he took up working the Florida circuit as did Schweitzer, neither of them ever returned.

[reckless]

hi clore, everyone:

Talk about memories...that era was when I came of age as a fan... those early years of Aqueduct's inner dirt track.

Al Schweitzer was the single best exercise rider in the history of racing -- I know I am full of hyperbole here.

But that WAS his reputation.

He was part of the NY lineage and was for a very long time John Campo's stable when the great Round Mound of Sound was the best trainer in the country bar none. Maybe, just maybe, Al went after Frank Martin because of the 'hatred' Campo and Pancho had for one another, engaging in numerous claiming feuds throughout the 1970s.

He went out on his own around that time the Inner track opened, which I believe was 1973-4 or so. Like I said, he was great on a horse in the morning and he had an extensive background many, many, many years prior to going on his own.

In addition to Campo, Schweitzer was close with and worked for such top Big A claiming trainers like Buddy Jacobson and Bobby Frankel, before Bobby went west and went from one cheaper HollyPark claimer to racing's Hall of Fame.

Actually, Schweitzer worked for Frankel his last few years on the track. I believe Al died last year by suicide.

I remember Al and Patriot's Dream and those interesting fun early days of Winter racing and the Inner track.

Gil Puentes was a top trainer, who knew how to win. Unfortunately, I don't have the same opinion of Richard Nieminski, so I am glad to hear that someone bet him when one of his horses won. I always said when guys like Nieminski win, I lose.

[clore1030]

I'm greatly saddened to hear about the circumstances behind Al Schweitzer's death. I figured that he had probably passed away by now, but it's distressing to hear that it had come to that.

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I do think that as much as there are horses who are fighters, we have to look at them often in the context of the barns they are in.

Some trainers, such as Schweitzer, Marcus and Campo appeared to be able to work magic in the claiming box. Not necessarily trickery, but they were guys who could pick up a half-decent horse and find its hole card.

A couple of others were Phil Johnson and Joe Cantey. Both usually dealt with higher quality stock, but neither was adverse to picking up higher priced claimers either. I remember one day making three bets only, and all three happened to be P.G. Johnson horses ridden by Samyn. I believe Phil was the first one for whom Samyn rode steadily. All three won - the guy knew how to read a condition book and his horses were well-placed. Phil had a nice colt named Nasty and Bold who had the misfortune of coming the same year as Affirmed and Alydar, but who did manage to win the Brooklyn against older horses. I believe John Hertler got his break working for Johnson.

That same year, Joe Cantey had Cox's Ridge, a Forego-type runner who took the Met Mile once from about 15 lengths back. I think he won 6 or 7 straight races with that horse. Joe would use Eddie Maple regularly, and I've always thought that Eddie never got the credit he deserved. Cordero and Velasquez tended to get the high profile barns behind them,Vasquez too, but Maple was in my opinion as good as any of them.

I used to keep my own on-paper private barn of horses, and many of them came from the aforementioned trainers. What I did was keep an eye on their runners who won 30% or better, but because these guys would often be moving them up in class, I could still get a price. Fields tended to be bigger then also.

As I recall, the inner dirt opened the winter of 75-76.I may be wrong on that, but I know the first winner on the IDT was a claimer named Rare Joel - talk about fighters, this guy won or placed in most of his inner dirt routes.

Even more impressive was Sky Treaty, an early IDT legend who rattled off 7 straight victories, just about always going up from his initial 15K claiming price. As soon as we returned to the main track, he started descending back to that level.

What both horses had in common was that they weren't need-to-lead types, they could stalk also. If headed, they would draw away. But whether it was the cold or the surface, they thrived in the winter.