New to horse racing and the site.

[dabombbizzle]

Hey everyone. Just wanted to say hi and introduce myself. I'm quite new to horse racing and very new to the site here. I started watching horse racing to pass the time at work. I like to gamble on bet365.com and horse racing was one of the few things I could stream live at work to help pass the time. I found it quite interesting and very exciting.

I've spent a couple hours browsing the site and readng about pars, handicapping, different racing styles etc... and I've got a better understanding of how it works... But still some questions I'm hoping someone can easily explain.

Question 1: I see there is many different classes. My understanding is it's a bit like baseball. You have MLB, AAA, AA, A. Naturally the best horses race in the "MLB" class if you will.

Does each race track only race 1 class of horses? Or will they host all kinds of different classes?

Question 2: The site I use to bet only allowws you to pick a winner. If you really want to let your hair down you can parlay another horse to place. I've seen people discuss their tickets and it seems like some pick 3 possible winners, 5 possible places, and like maybe different choices for show.

Never seeing a real racing form or betting slip this seems quite confusing to me. Are these tickets more along the lines of what a seasoned horse racing fan may do? Or are these quite standard bets?

Question 3: Race data and history. Clearly to make good bets you are referencing sometime of data or history of these horses. Where do you get this helpful information? Is there a site which has all the information? Or do I need to go to different race track sites to gather the information from each one? Basically... is there an "ESPN" of horse racing type site that has this info easily available?

Random stuff... I was reading about matchups and pars... I kind of understood but not enough to make an educated decison on anything. How do you look at tandems? I gather it's horses that have previously raced against each other.. But how does me comparing 2 horses relate to the other horses in that race? What if none of the other horses have raced each other before?


As you can tell I'm very new to all this, but I'm quite eager to learn. If someone could help give me a couple pointers of how to get started that would be terrific. Kind of a "horse racing 101" would be perfect.

A little about me.... My name is Ryan, I'm 29, from Nova Scotia Canada. I work for RIM (We make the blackberry) and I'm a huge fan of sports and gambling.

Anyways... Hello again to everyone and I look forward to any help I can get

[dabombbizzle]

A couple other thoughts I had... Is there a certain type of racing style that is considered "better"?

Is there a certain class that is easier to pick winners? Is there a certain class you prefer to bet on? If so why?

Finally... Can someone maybe use this weekends Preakness as an example of how to handicapp? What information should I be looking for when evaluating a race? How did u come up with your picks for this weekend?

I promise I'm not looking for anyone to tell me who to pick this weekend. If you'd rather wait til after this weekend to answer that's fine. I'm just looking for an example of how people handicapp these races.

[barb craven]

Hi d and welcome to a fellow Canadian.
If you are completely new to horse racing, I would suggest you go into the library and start reading. Start with the followups #70 and upward. Then go into RDSS Information and read and follow everything there. That will give you a better understanding of what it's all about. then start asking questions. You will find people in here are more than willing to help you.
As a relative newcomer myself (4 1/2 years) this is the way I got started.
Others will probably jump in and give you more exact advice than I, but this will get you started.
Good luck with your endeavour.
Barb

[dabombbizzle]

Thanks for the helpful response Barb. I managed to win $200 on Shackleford today and another $60 for Astrology showing. Great start if you ask me

I tried to go to the library and check out the RDSS info... Is all that stuff something you pay to subscribe to? Or is there a free option?

[Ted Craven]

Hey Ryan,

Sounds like you know a little something to have made that $$$ betting on Shackleford and Astrology - congratulations! But, do the folks at RIM back in Waterloo know the Halifax office is betting on horse races in their spare time? Or are you doing Quality Assurance on the new Playbook (Little known fact, at least from an unscientific poll I did traveling in the States or querying my American friends: Blackberry is a Canadian invention).

Seriously, good to have you aboard. A few comments on your initial questions:

Question 1: I see there is many different classes. My understanding is it's a bit like baseball. You have MLB, AAA, AA, A. Naturally the best horses race in the "MLB" class if you will.

Does each race track only race 1 class of horses? Or will they host all kinds of different classes?

Horseracing seems to be a joyful confusion of contradictions mixed with some order within chaos. There are high class tracks and circuits (such as Belmont, Aqueduct, Saratoga - New York; Santa Anita, Hollywood Del Mar - So. California) and upper middle-class tracks such as Churchill Downs, Arlington Park, Woodbine, and 'low' class tracks such as Fort Erie, Evangeline and Prairie Meadows (and lots of other tracks in between).

'Low' class is not a pejorative term, merely indicating typically lower purse prices, slower horses or horses who tend to keep their form for shorter periods of time. Within each calibre of track, there are also grades of races, from Maiden Claiming races and conditioned claiming races at the low end, through Allowance races, to restricted Stakes races and various forms of Handicap and Stakes races at the upper end. Horses competing in high end races at Charles Town (low class track) may run competitively in the lower levels at Philadelphia and at New York tracks.

Many medium to lower class tracks will have a few seasonal high calibre Stakes races with big purses to draw attention and promote their other racing product. For example in the Winter and Spring preps for the Triple Crown races, you have modest tracks like Tampa Bay, Oaklawn, Hawthorne and Sunland running high class Graded Stakes races for $100K+ purses, but really the rest of the races (even on the same day) are mostly of very modest class.

Obviously on big race days you tend to get a collection of big races with big purses which attract higher calibre horses from around the region or the country. For example, Pimlico runs fairly modest purses and calibre horses in a short specialty Spring meet (used to be longer), with one BIG RACE in May (the Preakness Stakes). Same with Churchill Downs most of the time (a big higher level).

... continued ...

[Ted Craven]

Question 2: The site I use to bet only allows you to pick a winner. If you really want to let your hair down you can parlay another horse to place. I've seen people discuss their tickets and it seems like some pick 3 possible winners, 5 possible places, and like maybe different choices for show.

Never seeing a real racing form or betting slip this seems quite confusing to me. Are these tickets more along the lines of what a seasoned horse racing fan may do? Or are these quite standard bets?

Your current site is more focused on team sports betting and poker than on horse racing. There are dedicated online wager takers (Advance Deposit Wagering - ADW) for horse race betting which you should investigate. For Canadians, try:

1. Horse Player Interactive (Woodbine's betting operation: http://www.horseplayerinteractive.com), or
2. Premier Turf Club (US based ADW which accepts Canadians: https://www.betptc.com)
3. NHPlay.com (by referral/word-of-mouth, but covers ALL the tracks and gives the best rebates in the business).

Typical bets (and in recommended order of gaining proficiency at) are:

1. Win, Place, Show
2. Exacta (first and second place in same race)
3. Horizontal bets like Daily Double (winner in 2 successive races) and Pick 3 (3 races)
4. Other exotic (though not necessarily disreputable, just more difficult to hit and with higher % takeout by the track, thus harder to profit long term): Trifecta (first 3 finishers in a race), Superfecta (first 4 finishers), and then other horizontals like Picks 4, 5 and 6

A serious student will launch upon a methodology to determine valid contenders in a race, then learn how to bet the opportunities first in the Win Pool (bet the winner). The Sartin Methodology is a big proponent of betting multiple horses to win when odds warrant, though certainly not excluding other types of wagers. Only, you need to become proficient at finding horses likely to win and learning how and when and how much to bet on them first, and only then expanding to other wagers which necessarily depend on you being able to identify horses who can win (i.e. serial win bets - DD, Pick 3, etc - and vertical bets like Exacta, Trifecta, etc).

Consider treating wagering on horse races like a business: learn first principles, learn how to exploit your analysis int he betting phase, learn to keep records, learn emotional control (when and how much to bet, when to pass). Build on strengths, gather teachers, mentors, educational materials. Plan on the long run (but have fun along the way!)

... continued ...

[Ted Craven]

Question 3: Race data and history. Clearly to make good bets you are referencing sometime of data or history of these horses. Where do you get this helpful information? Is there a site which has all the information? Or do I need to go to different race track sites to gather the information from each one? Basically... is there an "ESPN" of horse racing type site that has this info easily available?

There are a few websites that supply various types of racing data and history. Equibase.com, Brisnet.com, DRF.com (Daily Racing Form) sell Past Performance data for upcoming races, lists of Entrants in upcoming races and provide free Charts of recently run races. You can get PDF files showing such histories (Past Performances) from them and then work out your analysis by eye and by hand (see a sample of such a document for Preakness Day here: http://paceandcap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7442, starting at post #6).

Another and popular method for working on racing analysis is by using computer software, such as RDSS which many people use here (the coloured images in the previous link). After setting up the software, you download data from a supplier (in this case, TrackMaster, a part of Equibase) and run it through the software and conduct your analysis there. There are MANY varieties of software, and they all help you see things which are either too obscure to see by eye from the jungle of data (unless you train yourself to do so) and perform calculations, for example velocity, deceleration, energy distribution, etc. And help you get tote info and keep records.

Perhaps someone else can continue with a discussion on your questions re Match Ups and Tandems, but do spend some time in the Matchers Forum and studying the contents of the Hat Check Forum.

You mentioned you were investigating the Library and videos. They are all FREE for you to use and learn from. When the time is right for you, and you feel you have digested some more of the broader ideas of horse racing, analysis and wagering, you are of course welcomed to try the RDSS software here (or other software anywhere else, of course). You can study that for as long as you like for free, with the complimentary past Demo Databases containing thousands of races, or current races and data for 30 days (you have to buy new race data). Just click on the RDSS logo in the upper right of the website to go to the page with more info on RDSS.

Keep asking questions (and even explain how you landed on Shackleford and Astrology ) - the dialog will undoubtedly be useful for not only yourself, but for others in various stages of familiarity with horse racing.

You CAN make positive money betting on horse racing. I have no background to compare it to other sports betting. It is not an easy task (and a good thing, else there'd be no game). Good analysis, wagering skills, money management, record keeping, emotional and psychological self-knowledge and control - all these are the key skills. Some folks here possess good command of many of these skills, so seek them out and ask their help - and all of us strive to practice and perfect those skills we have - often by sharing the journey.

Good luck, good skill (as Doc Sartin would say!)

cheers,

Ted

[dabombbizzle]

How did I end up with Shackleford and Astrology... A lot of luck! Shackleford looked good in the derby but ran outta gas... Figured a little shorter distance may make him tempting at 10-1. Astrology was suggested to me by Jim Schwartz via his twitter page. He's the head coach of the Detroit Lions. I figured what the heck and put down $10.

[dabombbizzle]

Oh, and I submitted my request for access to the download forum too.