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Old 01-07-2009, 11:53 AM   #1
Tim Y
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PFR revisited

What do Lost in the Fog, Barbaro and Big Brown have in common other than being stakes winners?

They make up a small, though significant number of horses that defy classification into a running style. No matter the pace, they were close to it....just CLOSE not dominating. While others might list these as need to lead types, they did not collapse as the pace got faster as those inferior animals do.


These types are not common making up less than 5% of runners and are usually at the top end of the game. The Positional Front Runner came out of a study to put to rest the Brohamer positional definition of runners versus the segmental velocity definition. In a 6 month study of twelve tracks, velocity beat out position 80:20 but within that 20% were these types reported here about 14 months ago as a NEW classification amongst the standard E. E/P, P.S/P, S and L varieties.

They are uncommon but real. Look for them.
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Old 01-07-2009, 03:04 PM   #2
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What possible criteria could you use to say one "beat" the other? Apples and oranges. Positional RS is NOT a pace rating. That' like asking what time is it and getting a reply "Dark." Clearly, Brohamer does not bet by running style, but uses it as part of his pace analysis. If you did not do it that way he describes the process, you cannot compare it to anything.

BTW, we call those horses you describe "early pressures." Barbaro and BB were not need to lead horses.
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Old 01-07-2009, 03:44 PM   #3
Tim Y
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QUOTE:While others might list these as need to lead types, they did not collapse as the pace got faster as those inferior animals do.

you have a habit of never reading a thing here or anywhere else
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Old 01-07-2009, 03:51 PM   #4
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I read it just fine, thanks you.

You assumption that a need the lead horse is inferior is wrong.
My question was how did you compare a running style designation to a pace rating and declare one of them "beat" the other?
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Old 01-07-2009, 03:54 PM   #5
Tim Y
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom View Post
I read it just fine, thanks you.

You assumption that a need the lead horse is inferior is wrong.
My question was how did you compare a running style designation to a pace rating and declare one of them "beat" the other?
Two sets of 'cappers using THEIR definitions. Results were as listed
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Old 01-07-2009, 07:30 PM   #6
Bill V.
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If this thread

Tim, This thread is going nowhere fast.

Pace and Cap is a discussion group of the Sartin Methodology

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and then move on or answer questions if your still not understood

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