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Old 01-19-2019, 08:11 PM   #1
CheckMark
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I can’t belive it but WOW

Ok I was digging through my old systems that I have and a few I haven’t touched for a while. One of the systems came in a bundle that I purchased from RPM and the system is called “Drop Back and Gain” and did decide to test it out on a past drf copy (since Mohawk keeps the drf in the recycling bins I grabbed 6 copies when I was there on 1/5/19)

My test tracks were Tampa and was surprised to see the results:
1/5/19

Results that follow the system:
R4 #7 $22.00+ $62 EXA
R5 #8 $7.40
R10 #5 $8.80+ $117.20 EXA AND $943.70 TRI!

Plays qualified: 10
Bet (hypothetical $5 bets): $50
Returned: $95.50
Profit: $45.50




Results for where there was at least 1 DBAG in the pps:
R1 #1 $13.00
R3 #9 $17.80
R6 #4 $40.60!
R8 #6 $5.80+$31.40 EXA, $151.70 TRI
R9 #5 $13.00 + $159.80 EXA

Plays qualified: 27
Bet (hypothetical $5 bets): $135
Returned: $225.50
Profit: $90.50?




So hopefully when I can handicap Tampa in the future, this can be magic again. The system says it’s also working at GP,DMR,SA,MVR AND GG!

Thanks and onto Oaklawn for Friday (and exams this week)
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Old 01-19-2019, 09:00 PM   #2
Jeebs
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Conley,

At the risk of sounding rude, what does this have to do with the Sartin Methodology?
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Old 01-20-2019, 08:00 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeebs View Post
Conley,

At the risk of sounding rude, what does this have to do with the Sartin Methodology?
Sorry. Nothing. But just showing some results.
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Old 01-20-2019, 10:48 AM   #4
raceman5
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Think

Ted has to pass new guidelines for this site for 2019 and beyond. If it has nothing to do with the Sartin Methodology don't post it! end of story.

Bob
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Old 01-20-2019, 02:08 PM   #5
dlivery
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Exams get ready Conley

Exams Exams Exams
Post those official results would be interesting to see.

Case closed
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Old 01-20-2019, 09:13 PM   #6
OldPR65
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I hardly ever post, although I seek knowledge reading posts from the various people here that are grateful enough to share their knowledge, but it seems to me Conley (CheckMark) has been warned more than a number of times about his useless posts on systems that have nothing to do with the Sartin Methodology. Conley, either shape up or go somewhere else. 'nuff said.
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Old 01-21-2019, 07:26 AM   #7
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Sure won’t post this again.
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Old 01-21-2019, 08:37 AM   #8
DontSayDont
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Just noting that other posts, other than Conley's, have been written that are not about the methodology. Case in point, discussions on books that are not on the methodology.

When I first got into horse racing many, many years ago, I purchased books, software and even some "everyone can win with this" material only to find that what is really needed has been posted by some of the better players on this site.

I seldom play and have not used RDSS but can see how depending on players style there are programs in RDSS that pertain to different player abilities/styles.

In his youthful exuberance Conley reminds me of myself in my early years. The pattern he talks about here, I believe is Dr. Z's, z-pattern, a horse player/author that is/has been discussed on the site.

I personally wouldn't go to hard on him as when he finds that RDSS contains every thing that can make him become a better player than all the systems that have been tried and eventually failed over the long run he can become an asset to the site.

Ray
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Old 01-21-2019, 09:49 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DontSayDont View Post
Just noting that other posts, other than Conley's, have been written that are not about the methodology. Case in point, discussions on books that are not on the methodology.

When I first got into horse racing many, many years ago, I purchased books, software and even some "everyone can win with this" material only to find that what is really needed has been posted by some of the better players on this site.

I seldom play and have not used RDSS but can see how depending on players style there are programs in RDSS that pertain to different player abilities/styles.

In his youthful exuberance Conley reminds me of myself in my early years. The pattern he talks about here, I believe is Dr. Z's, z-pattern, a horse player/author that is/has been discussed on the site.

I personally wouldn't go to hard on him as when he finds that RDSS contains every thing that can make him become a better player than all the systems that have been tried and eventually failed over the long run he can become an asset to the site.

Ray
Thank you for the positive feedback. RDSS seems the way to go now. Sorry for all the bs this year. I guess shutting up is the way to go for ME and posting things about the Methodology should be the posts on General Form. Only 4 days 3 hours and 40 minutes till OAKLAWN!!!
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Old 01-21-2019, 12:12 PM   #10
Ted Craven
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Folks, I think we can all agree that this site specializes in discussion and resources related to the Sartin Methodology and The Matchup as taught by Jim Bradshaw and his subsequent students.

On the one hand, it would be out of place if someone started posting detailed discussion and enquiry about the intricacies of HTR, or Jcapper or Black Magic - all of these, and other software, surely reputable and successful tools in the hands of diligent practitioners. Simply because: there are dedicated websites for these other tools where BETTER advice can be had. There would be no point asking non-users of these tools here for advice, and perhaps this observation seems trite and self-evident.

On the other hand, if ever there was an individual more open to researching and testing WHAT WORKS in the process of analysis and betting on horse races - it would probably be Howard Sartin. At one point in the Methodology history, there were no TPR figures - then there were. And there was no Deceleration analysis - then there was. There was no downloading from online data sources - then there was. Etc, etc.

Then Dr Sartin stopped his work. Then it continued again. Some improvements (IMO) from Guy Wadsworth's Speculator which Sartin was at odds with. Then, in RDSS, there was support for tote board data analysis - not previously (much) a part of formal Sartin teachings. Then there were Workout Patterns and speed ratings - not previously a part of Sartin teachings. Then there were 'moves patterns' during segments of a race courtesy of Jim Lehane - not previously a part of Sartin teachings. NewPace, a concept from Dave Schwartz was added in. Then figures available from BRISnet (ProfitLine, soon BRIS Prime Power). Concepts such as high-weights in handicaps, average Speed Ratings (CSR) and more.

These newer additions are in use and discussed (some more, some less) elsewhere by others who don't even know about the Sartin Methodology, some of them quite successful, others just theorists. It can be debated (in a different thread if needed) the utility of these additions - whether they are helpful or distractions - and I accept complete responsibility for their presence in RDSS and discussion here about them, and for what will come.

But the question is - are these newer things (new since Sartin's day) a part of the Sartin Methodology? And deserving of discussion at PaceandCap? Or only because I said so?

I ask this question sincerely! There are a number of erudite and passionate researchers out there dedicated to taking money out of a horse race by numerous 'non-Sartin' means. Do we forego discussion and knowledge of those ideas just because 'it wasn't invented here'? And what are the boundaries of the Sartin Methodology? Can it ever evolve, if it wasn't written about in the the Follow Ups?

Or do we only want the 'good' or 'reputable' 'outside' research? How do we tell what's what?

Here's what I've got so far. I am NOT a good historian or consumer of 'system mills' - offerings of software or pen and paper methods guaranteeing riches for $49.99. But if it has the name RPM on it - by fiat, I am declaring it worthless!

Damn...I just lost 2 more paragraphs of this post to a keystroke mishap

Anyway ... the gist was: I think there is much respectable research and ideas out there which are fuel for discussion here about concepts and ideas which can help someone enjoy and even be profitable at this game (especially ideas and tools which help turn good analysis into good bets). I welcome those ideas here and would like to participate in some of them and learn from all of them.

Conley might be asking: how to tell what is respectable and what is trash, when it's ALL new to him? I think it's a fair question. But I do also think that it demonstrates lack of attention (even disrespect) to ask questions like that without having started to delve into the primary offerings of THIS community of knowledge FIRST.

So how about this: after mastering RDSS and its implementation of the Sartin Methodology (and after giving it a REAL go) or refreshing your knowledge about and possibly resurrecting the older software you knew and loved -- then it's OK to ask about this and that other system priced at $49.99 and promising riches.

Ted
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Last edited by Ted Craven; 01-21-2019 at 12:15 PM.
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