Running Styles Question

[20towin]

What is more important in determining the Running style of the horse, is it the horses beaten lenghts or its position in the pack.

Exampes.

A horse who is 3rd beaten 1/4 lenghts, and a horse who is 6th beaten 1 lenght. how would these be viewed?

[Ted Craven]

Referring to the first call , I would tend to call the first example a Presser or Early Presser, and the 2nd one some kind of Presser. Depends on confirmation from other running lines and how they maintain that position to the 2nd call.

If they were Early, they'd be in the lead. If they were a true Early Presser, they should also have a number of Position 2's in their record, same distance from the winner's nose.

I tend to rely on running position, more than beaten lengths, to judge where they will try to run today.

Ted

[tompkins]

Originally Posted by 20towin

What is more important in determining the Running style of the horse, is it the horses beaten lenghts or its position in the pack.

Exampes.

A horse who is 3rd beaten 1/4 lenghts, and a horse who is 6th beaten 1 lenght. how would these be viewed?

The designation of running style COMPLETELY depends upon the pace said horse ran against. It cannot be answered otherwise without the "yardstick" of pace....THAT is unless you are Brohammering it. and, I might add, once I put Brohammer's point of view back in the shelf, my win percentages grew steadily.

[tompkins]

EARLY horses do NOT have to be out front particularly if a race has several of them. Just because an early horse did not break on top does not mean it is OTHER than early....CONVERSELY, a late or sustained horse (War Emblem was a good example) may often be on the lead. THE PACE dictates it, not the position.

[tompkins]

Many horses either going off form, or going up against much faster horses, DO NOT run "into" a race as far, i.e they cannot keep up as they had been in the past as their form deteriorates or they face a pace much faster than they are capable of competing against. The KEY here is the degree of early. IN BOTH cases, they cannot keep up.

Good example here is Hoosick Falls at Aqu....just met too fast a pace, but came back THIS day as the only speed and won at a price.

[Ted Craven]

This is addressed to 20towin:

My response was about 'Running Style', to use your term, and I happen to use that term (as do others) to denote a horse's VISUAL Running Style (their pack order and their proximity to the leader/s), as distinct from its Energy Disbursement style. BOTH observations make use of the terminology Early, Sustained, Presser, Late and variations, and I would not wish to do without, or ignore the impact of EITHER measurement.

If you are asking about Energy Disbursement styles, Tompkins has something to say about that. If you are interested in visual Running Style, the 'Hat Check' Forum and other Match Up related topics discuss and make much use of these concepts from a VISUAL/POSITIONAL point of view.

Ted

[tompkins]

without pace, position means very little. period

[tom]

Hate to disagree, but , maybe to you, but not to others who have figured out how to use it effectivley - a closed mind is not a good thing. I think the Hat has proven that visually ESP works. Proving it doesn't seems to be prretty much impossible.

[tompkins]

Following the crowd and being a handicapping clone is not what gets the prices.

[tom]

Point is, the crowd, as a whole, doesn't use running style analysis properly, if at all, so using it as part a comprehensive pace evaluation is hardly following anyone. And it does get prices when you learn how to do it. Iprefer to focus on the running styles as a preference of the horses, and have been winning from that persepective for many years. I do not say that is the only way to go, but I do know it works.