Double standard?

[jms62]

Originally Posted by seattlesnake

I have been a member of this site....for over 90 days and overall the group has been very helpfull, imformative and friendly....while i handicap i usually check in just to see what other members have posted and hopefully learn or share something and at the same time ease the stress of the GRIND....(im averaging 7-9hrs a day at the racebook)...

But there is always some1 in any chat room that has to be different..unique or off the wall....which promotes responses...but if I may suggest...How about a "Go To Chat Jail" card depending on the severity of the offense imposed by the admin..... for which the only way the offender can bail himself out is to be allowed to post a 2horse pick and come up with a # of winners...10...20...whatever the admin imposes within that chat jail period.. and he must show proof upon completion in order to be allowed back to the mainline....

"Who Do Ya Like Trotter?" - Hamburger...funny character in the movie "Let It Ride"

He has been banned several times and god for the life of me I can not in anyway understand the decision to let him back in. If he is banned again rest assurd he will show up under a different ID but it won't take a "surgeon" to figure out who it is.

[Bill V.]

I will deal with this tonight ....

To get back onto the subject of the thread

Do jockeys matter ? Like Howard often said
racing is a stocastic event. People feel good and bad
and nobody knows who does or doesn't.
I have better days than some at my job,
yesterday was not a good day. I made a costly mistake at work
I could have been fired. I did not get fired.
I think my overall body of work over the years saved me

Isn't horse racing these mens jobs?
Can the best mess up? yes but we can't
let slip ups effect our overall ability to
do the task of selecting profitable winners

Bill

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Bill V.

I will deal with this tonight ....

To get back onto the subject of the thread

Do jockeys matter ? Like Howard often said
racing is a stocastic event. People feel good and bad
and nobody knows who does or doesn't.
I have better days than some at my job,
yesterday was not a good day. I made a costly mistake at work
I could have been fired. I did not get fired.
I think my overall body of work over the years saved me

Isn't horse racing these mens jobs?
Can the best mess up? yes but we can't
let slip ups effect our overall ability to
do the task of selecting profitable winners

Bill

I am beginning to think like the Fat Man when it comes to synthetic races. These races usually do not even start until they turn for home. The jockey working the best trip is at the advantage. I will pass races where the readout winners show a jockey that doesn't have success on the surface.

[tom]

Jockeys do not make horses run faster, but they do allow them to run their best. They get a rhythm with the horse that relaxes them they keep out of traffic, they steer to the best part of the track. They have the horse in place to capitalize on the pace scenario. That is how I use the jockey factor. Good, proven riders break ties.

[jms62]

Originally Posted by tom

Jockeys do not make horses run faster, but they do allow them to run their best. They get a rhythm with the horse that relaxes them they keep out of traffic, they steer to the best part of the track. They have the horse in place to capitalize on the pace scenario. That is how I use the jockey factor. Good, proven riders break ties.

I think we are talking the same thing here Tom although you expressed it more clearly.

[Vinnie]

Hello FTL:

OMG, I love your posts. Honestly, I can only dream of possessing all of the past data and information that you have accumulated through literally an incredible amount of work and it goes without saying at a substantial cost to yourself as well. I am thrilled when you put up facts that you have found to be significant through literally hundreds of thousands if not millions of races. I find them significant in every respect because they are indeed "Fact"! What is there to argue about when you are presented with "Facts"?

I find most of the folks in general on this site to have one truly essential aspect to their personalities and that is to have a bit of "Humility". My gosh what ever happened to having a little bit of that? When I read the posts presented by one person in particular, I am at a loss as to where it (any sense of humility) has gone off to.

All the BEST!

Vinnie

[Tim Y]

Originally Posted by jms62

Yes I see it as or maybe ,9. It's total nonsense dude. When you have a big price in your picks and he wins you claim to have made a killing. When the price runs second you are always glad that you "Loaded Up the Place" Yet you never entered a contest that we had. Never show your stuff. You talk about science but what you do is not science it is bullSH*T. Get over yourself.

Contests are for some people. I bet with the mutuels. That is where monetary compensation comes from ....always has.

Shotgun wagering was an epiphany spurned on by a good friend at Fort Erie, who, like myslef, got tired of being correct (horse runs well) and not getting paid for figuring that out, so, iwht his help, he turned me on to exotics only and showed me a year end total of how he did with this maneuver. Works great and the bottom line has been exceptional. One misses a lot, but if you are careful where you put your choices, the long term ROI is better than I ever did trying just to nail the winner.

[reckless]

Originally Posted by For The Lead

And thousands of other races as well. As an example, Majestic Prince's Belmont when either Johnny Longdon (trainer and ex-jockey) or Bill Hartack (current jockey) did not let this "undefeated" front runner go to the lead in a mind boggling 1:16 and change for the first 3/4 of a mile resulting in the horse chasing Arts and Letters home to finish second.

The point being "horsey stuff" DOES have a bearing on the outcome of a race, as you have brought to light, and those things ARE NOT limited to jockeys!

Majestic Prince, winner of the Derby and Preakness, had a bowed tendon going into the Belmont Stakes.

His trainer, the great Hall of Fame rider and extremely capable trainer, Johnny Longdon, did NOT want to run in the Belmont, Triple Crown glory nothwithstanding, because of the severity of Majestic Prince's injury.

He begged the owner, Frank McMahon, not to risk permanent damage. Majestic Prince's problems were known and an ongoing concern, but Longdon felt he simply couldn't run his best in the Belmont and was proven right (the winner was a very legit champion and a sharp horse going into the race).

As everyone knows, McMahon did run Majestic Prince despite the bowed tendon and Longdon's protest. He was retired immediately following the race and Longdon resigned as McMahon's trainer the very next day.

This explains, in part, the real reason why the jockey, Hall of Famer Bill Hartack, may not have 'let his undefeated front-runner go for the lead in a mind-boggling ...' as you wrote.

[JimG]

Originally Posted by Tim Y

Contests are for some people. I bet with the mutuels. That is where monetary compensation comes from ....always has.

Hey Tim,

They do not have to be mutually exclusive. I certainly do both. Contests provide a different challenge and can be quite rewarding monetarily as well.

As an aside, I think Tim provides a unique perspective to racing and I enjoy his racing-related posts, although I certainly do not agree with all of them. He at least makes me think, and that is a good thing.

The personal stuff on all sides should not be tolerated. Of course, I am not a moderator or several would have been kicked off and NEVER allowed back. The rules should be clear, a couple of warnings given, and then a lifetime ban of any hard headed individual that chooses to continue showing their a$$ here.

This board should be about Horse Racing, Handicapping, and Sartin-Related information, ideas. The other stuff should not be tolerated at all. But, it's not my board. Hopefully, everyone will turn the testosterone level down a few notches.

Jim