projecting pace

[Bill V.]

Excellent honest feelings

We are here to help so vent away
We all get fustrated I am not 100% percent
but I feel for you

Mike, Mr Bradshaw told me that almost everybody he teaches the match up
to has some success but hardly anybody can do it.

from what I have seen you are one of the few who can do it

I would suggest do lots of practice
maybe do 20, 6 furlong races
Then do 20, 7 furlong races working your way up in distance
Maybe you are making a lemon pie but your using
cherrys

Tom I really like that advice about circles around the 1 and 2
position/time horses

thanks
Good Skill
Bill

[Bill V.]

Hi Jeff
I didn't tell you not to post I asked you not to post
That was real nice advice for Mike
thank you for adding your thoughts

Bill

[BJennet]

Originally Posted by mikesal57

maybe I shouldn't say this but I will...

its been over a year since I went the course of learning the match-up
and now I don't think I'm any better than say 4-6-8 months ago..
I just read book 2 and its just added more wood to the fire..
Part 1 in the book you have matching the "key" race to other horses.The key race being the horse that ran closest to the fastest paced race...
Part 2 you have the "projected pace" chapter using early horses..
The Hat Check forum you have posts teaching using positions only...
This post has beaten lengths in the picture..
You have using recent races for pacelines...
You have the section on matching "Power Lines" which can be anywhere in the PP's for pacelines..

Maybe I'm frustrated or upset that this 2 months off would get me somehow ahead..but I'm not!!
they say there are "no rules" what I see is "no uniformity"

Sorry if I offended anyone..I just had to vent

is there any one out there that are 100% matchers ??

mike

Hi Mike,

I'm not a matcher and wouldn't normally post here, but your frustration reminded me of a Follow Up I read recently. In one of the 'late-period' FUs, Doc Sartin says that he was never able to learn the MU, despite years of working alongside Jim Bradshaw, and that he never came across anyone who could really use it effectively except Jim himself. Sartin also talks about coming to believe that the kind of reliance on the 'visual' that the MU requires is inherently deceptive.

Let me caveat this by saying, my knowledge of the MU is very limited, and that I would be interested in seeing some feedback on this subject from successful matchers.

Cheers,

B Jennet

[tfm]

Originally Posted by BJennet

Hi Mike,

Doc Sartin says that he was never able to learn the MU, despite years of working alongside Jim Bradshaw, and that he never came across anyone who could really use it effectively except Jim himself. Sartin also talks about coming to believe that the kind of reliance on the 'visual' that the MU requires is inherently deceptive.

I'm neither a follower of Sartin or Bradshaw. But I've read enough on this forum, and corresponded enough with Richie, to realize, obviously, that what set Bradshaw apart was that he was a SUPERIOR race watcher. I don't just mean that he could watch a race more closely than others and see trouble, and that sort of thing, but that he had a very good understanding of SETUPS. In other words, how a race was shaping up and how a move by a given horse fit, negatively or positively, within the context of that race. One can have a numeric understanding of SETUPS (/PACE) or an INTUITIVE one. Bradshaw was a master of the latter (IMO) and he saw things that others couldn't (even if he pointed them out).

JMO

[shoeless]

Mike, It's in the 92 seminar tape and it's not too far after Doc introduces everybody.Owens does a good job of explaining it in simple terms and does say he got the idea after watching Hat at the racebook.

[shoeless]

Mike, I dont understand something these programs have the match up already in it so why would you want to avoid using them.It seems to me it would be less of a headache then to do it without them.

[mikesal57]

Thank you Jeff and the rest of you guys...

I thought that this would be my calling a year ago when I first read about The Match-Up...Richie made it look sooo easy that anybody can do it..but reality hit me and said hold on buddy your not gonna get it that easy..you gotta work a little harder...I know that JB was in a class of his own and it took him many years to perfect it, so who am I to say that I can do it in a year....
From the guys responding here it seems that they know of it but dont use it fully in their handicapping ..

I always wonder if there are any true matchers out there ...

thxs

mike

[mikesal57]

Originally Posted by shoeless

Mike, I dont understand something these programs have the match up already in it so why would you want to avoid using them.It seems to me it would be less of a headache then to do it without them.

Jeff, I believe it doesnt ...most programs are designed using final times, speed ratings, or someones home grown numbers...
Tell me can a program see 3 matching earlies and figure that they'll submit each other to the back of the pack....but maybe one of them has that big speed rating that will put it still at the top of the rankings??

mike

[mikesal57]

Originally Posted by Bill V.

Excellent honest feelings

We are here to help so vent away
We all get fustrated I am not 100% percent
but I feel for you

Mike, Mr Bradshaw told me that almost everybody he teaches the match up
to has some success but hardly anybody can do it.

from what I have seen you are one of the few who can do it

I would suggest do lots of practice
maybe do 20, 6 furlong races
Then do 20, 7 furlong races working your way up in distance
Maybe you are making a lemon pie but your using
cherrys

Tom I really like that advice about circles around the 1 and 2
position/time horses

thanks
Good Skill
Bill

Bill ...I hear you...if you recall (and I know Richie knows this) I had a lot better success before sticking with 6 fur races for my match-up ...I thought that I could expand but as you can see it lead me here ...

back to basics

mike

[mikesal57]

Originally Posted by BJennet

Hi Mike,

I'm not a matcher and wouldn't normally post here, but your frustration reminded me of a Follow Up I read recently. In one of the 'late-period' FUs, Doc Sartin says that he was never able to learn the MU, despite years of working alongside Jim Bradshaw, and that he never came across anyone who could really use it effectively except Jim himself. Sartin also talks about coming to believe that the kind of reliance on the 'visual' that the MU requires is inherently deceptive.

Let me caveat this by saying, my knowledge of the MU is very limited, and that I would be interested in seeing some feedback on this subject from successful matchers.

Cheers,

B Jennet

Thxs BJ for this...now I dont feel like a complete idiot....lol
Yes...I would like for these matcher to surface too...think about it...this is probably the only & last place anyone is going to hear about The Hat and his legacy..whats going to happen if we give up on it


mike