selecting pace lines

[Lt1]

I have a question about pl selection. I see where FTL refers to the PL manual which does state use last line except for valid reason to go back. When I joined the Methodolgy in 1990 we were told by the Doc to use the best of the last 3 at a comparable dist and surface [within 1 furlong] and not to use a line where horse was beaten by more than 7.5 lenghts. I've been doing this with good success for 23 yrs. I will agree that most times the line I use is in the top 3 last lines. So my question is when did it revert back to the last line?. Thank you.

Tim G

[atkinsrr]

Lt1...nothing has changed that I know of...but sometimes I have an exception to the guideline within (1 furlong) and usually this exception involves horses going 10 furlongs today and u r trying to use a 9.0 furlong line and end up with an 8.5 furlong line which is out of the 1 furlong perimeter....that's what keep records is all about..going back and finding 10 furlong winners that you could only get with a 8.5 furlong pace line...if memory serves me correctly it happened in the derby a few times in the past with Sea Hero, Charismatic, and now Orb..and maybe a few others that I don't recall...since "Doc" gave us all these guidelines, racing has made dramatic changes...Doc said about every 5 yrs this happens and what worked some yrs ago may not work now...I would suggest to you keep doing what Doc prescribed but keep records on everything...and I know that's a pain sometimes when you would rather be doing other things on saturday night with family and friends...but setting time aside for notes, record keeping, and modeling is CRITICAL to success in this business...and me being a former business owner, I understand what I need to do to be successful, and if it wasn't for Doc's leadership and Bradshaws ass chewing over the phone...I wouldn't be thinking as I do today...hope this help.....good skills to all

[Lt1]

Thanks for the reply Atkinsrr. I do keep records and know both my weak and strong points. As a result I play mostly races for 3 &ups on the dirt where I get the winner in the top 2 68% of the time. As for the Derby I didn't play butwould have used line 1 for all the contenders since it was at 9f. If you decide to use an 8.5 line for 1 contender than in my opioion you must rate the rest in the same way. The 1 furlong guide works well. Remember the TC races are for 3yr olds who are like teenagers. You can't be too surprised when unusal results happen, not that ORB winning was a surprise. I also follow Docs missive about not using the Derby pace line for any other races.

[atkinsrr]

You are correct..can't use the derby line for the Preakness ..actually there are no pace lines to use when handicapping the Belmont unless you want to get brave and use the Derby line which is the closest distance to the Belmont...sometimes I do..sometimes I don't...but I disagree with one thing that you said "if you use a 8.5 f line for 1 contender than in my opinion you must rate the rest in the same way"...Every race is different and presents a different puzzle for us to solve...I will use 8.5 for one and 9 for another ..they are both 2 turn races going into a 2 turn race..so I don't have a problem with that personally.......one thing that I never do is use 2 turn pace lines when I'm handicapping for a 1 turn mile on the dirt...hey we are all different...and it's the bottom line $$$$$$$ that counts..catch you later

[Lt1]

The reason I feel this way is if you don't use the 1 furlong guideline for all the horses than you maybe giving an advantage to 1 while hurting the others. Unless of course the other contenders best lines were the last. I believe you must be consistent with your handicapping procedures. But your right the bottom line is all that counts. Enjoy ypur day.

[Bill V.]

Hey guys and gals
It would help if the teaching area was limited to instructions and or direct answerable questions and commentary on races presented here

There are other forums on pace and cap for opinions on what each person chooses to do to get to the goal of being a consistent winners

Thanks
Bill

[For The Lead]

Originally Posted by Lt1

I have a question about pl selection. I see where FTL refers to the PL manual which does state use last line except for valid reason to go back. When I joined the Methodolgy in 1990 we were told by the Doc to use the best of the last 3 at a comparable dist and surface [within 1 furlong] and not to use a line where horse was beaten by more than 7.5 lenghts. I've been doing this with good success for 23 yrs. I will agree that most times the line I use is in the top 3 last lines. So my question is when did it revert back to the last line?. Thank you.

Tim G

I will take responsibility for the recent talk about using the last paceline unless there is a “valid” reason to go back one line, among other things.

Since there is already a thread in the teaching area that disusses picking contenders and pacelines and using RDSS software, my suggestion to is read through that thread from start to finish. There are many, many examples of races. You can find the thread here. http://paceandcap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8784

In fact, all the threads in the teaching area use original methodology concepts and RDSS. I think all of them would be a good read for everyone. There is a lot in there, but it is all good information.

[Because I Can Jim]

Hey, my first post!!! Hopefully it is useful.

Don't forget that there is a database for all of the races for this 'Learn to Win' *TEACHING & Examples thread.

Here is the link:

http://paceandcap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9127

Ted had me go thru the entire section and compile a list of the tracks, dates and races all of the posts were referring to. I identified about 65 races in all. Ted then created a database of the cards that corresponded to the track and date so the example races would be included in the database.

While I am able to read the posts, it is a much more different feel to load up the race, work it and then see what FTL, Bill and everyone else is referring to. Doing it this way helps me to develop my own opinion ifrst, then to get into the mind of "teachers" to see what their thought process is.

Until my second post..

Jim

[lone speed]

Originally Posted by Because I Can Jim

Hey, my first post!!! Hopefully it is useful.

Don't forget that there is a database for all of the races for this 'Learn to Win' *TEACHING & Examples thread.

Here is the link:

http://paceandcap.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9127

Ted had me go thru the entire section and compile a list of the tracks, dates and races all of the posts were referring to. I identified about 65 races in all. Ted then created a database of the cards that corresponded to the track and date so the example races would be included in the database.

While I am able to read the posts, it is a much more different feel to load up the race, work it and then see what FTL, Bill and everyone else is referring to. Doing it this way helps me to develop my own opinion ifrst, then to get into the mind of "teachers" to see what their thought process is.

Until my second post..

Jim

Jim...

Welcome and congrats on your first post on this board!!

I like your initial approach to immerse yourself with the methodology.

I would like to point out that some of the best posters ( Tipton Gilbert is one such poster)with great insights and commentaries were posters who posted fewer than 5 message posts on this board.

I wish you a successful journey to achieve your objectives with the RDSS and teachings of the Sartin Methodology.

Good skills