Time for some help

[Bill V.]

Mike I disagree and hopefully Ted will be consistent

Its his forum. In his forum he recommends to newcomers to the methodology
reading Follow up 70 -88
Follow Up Library

If you can show me in these 19 Follow ups any mention or guideline
of only using lines less than 90 days as a paceline selection tool
let me know I don't recall ever seeing it.

But I do remember reading oh just a few times about the best of last 3
lines. There sure are lots of example winners in those follow ups
with lines 3 or 4 back

Hope i'm wrong cause you are a good guy as is everybody here

If there is to be a newbie new guidelines forum
There should be a committee or group like Doc had Pirco
and statements should be voted on and discussed before they are
made the new law of the land

[Bill V.]

Thank You Dick
Nice to hear from you again

Dick I believe trackmaster also uses a track class adjustment

If not exactly like Tom Hamilton's article from Follow Up #24
then something very close as you explained

[Bill V.]

screens 4-7

[Bill V.]

The article is very long Tom does an a whole race showing each horses past performance lines and his adjustments but I will cut it here after horse 1

[Bill V.]

What we call Adjusted Sartin lines is not telling the whole story
The lines are also Normalized and Equalized against Sartin Downs
with something call Par Gaps -- The secret formula that we pray never gets
to the public. In addition to final time and variant adjustments some kind of
sliding scale of energy usage by various point in each distance are included


I would think since Doc , Jim Bradshaw and Guy Wadsworth have passed
Ted is the answer

[mikesal57]

Originally Posted by Bill V.

Mike I disagree and hopefully Ted will be consistent

Its his forum. In his forum he recommends to newcomers to the methodology
reading Follow up 70 -88
Follow Up Library

If you can show me in these 19 Follow ups any mention or guideline
of only using lines less than 90 days as a paceline selection tool
let me know I don't recall ever seeing it.

But I do remember reading oh just a few times about the best of last 3
lines. There sure are lots of example winners in those follow ups
with lines 3 or 4 back

Hope i'm wrong cause you are a good guy as is everybody here

If there is to be a newbie new guidelines forum
There should be a committee or group like Doc had Pirco
and statements should be voted on and discussed before they are
made the new law of the land

Bill , you misunderstood me ..I am not quoting anything from the follow up manuals...this is "my guidelines" on how I select a line. I am not qualified to change anything that was written or that should be changed. What I do believe in that the phrase "there are no rules" needs to be put in better terms.

[Bill V.]

Originally Posted by Bill V.

What we call Adjusted Sartin lines is not telling the whole story
The lines are also Normalized and Equalized against Sartin Downs
with something call Par Gaps -- The secret formula that we pray never gets
to the public. In addition to final time and variant adjustments some kind of
sliding scale of energy usage by various point in each distance are included


I would think since Doc , Jim Bradshaw and Guy Wadsworth have passed
Ted is the answer

Follow Up 85

[For The Lead]

Originally Posted by Bill V.

Mike I disagree and hopefully Ted will be consistent Its his forum. In his forum he recommends to newcomers to the methodology
reading Follow up 70 -88
Follow Up Library

If you can show me in these 19 Follow ups any mention or guideline of only using lines less than 90 days as a paceline selection tool let me know I don't recall ever seeing it.

But I do remember reading oh just a few times about the best of last 3 lines. There sure are lots of example winners in those follow ups with lines 3 or 4 back

If "Doc" did not mention any such guideline, he did everything he could short of that guideline to encourage people to use recent pacelines in favor of old pacelines.

Consider that from the beginning, "Doc's" philosophy was to use the last line UNLESS THERE WAS A "VALID" REASON TO GO BACK....ONE LINE, NOT 9 LINES!. Later he expanded to best of last three comparable. Even when he expanded on his original concept to the best of last three comparable, he "ok'd" going back 5 lines, BUT ONLY if there were two intervening lines that were not comparable. Translated, that means if the first three lines are comparable, that's as far as you go! He also recommended that where going back to line 4 or 5 is necessary (?) then one should keep records of those instances to see if it is a viable procedure. Beyond that, he also says he would take a "lesser" line over a better line where the better line is too old. How many ways do you want "Doc" to say that recent lines are better than old lines?

No, "Doc" didn't set a number of days to it, but horses in training have recent races. (i.e.-within the last 90 days) Understand, horses in training will run 4 or 5 races in the last 90 days and since "Doc" advocates not going back more than 3 lines (except for the circumstance noted above), it would be from those races in the last 90 days from which a paceline would be chosen.

What "Doc" said can be found in follow up #84 which you posted just a few posts back and which I addressed.

I have horses my database that won where lines 3,4,or even 5 were used (and those lines were within the last 90 days), but those horses do not win at any where near the same rate as horses where lines 1 or 2 were used. So can I post up information from some races where line 3,4 or 5 was used? Sure I can, but SO WHAT? The bottom line is that horses where line 1 or 2 was used win much more frequently. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but they are the facts. It's not speculation or opinion. I went into this gathering of information almost 14 years ago without any preconceived ideas. Rather, my goal was to accumulate information and let that information tell me what the facts are.

All you have to do is read what "Doc" wrote and understand what he was saying. Couple that with just a little understanding of horses in training and the picture is quite clear.

[Bill V.]

From Follow Up 85

Here is Doc doing a Rare ( for this era) of the Methodology
step by step race I have red highlighted the Paceline Indicator results

Only a $6.80 winner but its a look at his pace line and contender
methods

[Bill V.]

Follow Up 85 Step by Step with Doc