Gulfstream

[dirty moose]

So I was talking with Tim (LT1) and Richie (rmath) over the weekend while we were playing GP. I noticed that they "seem" to have 2 different turf courses. They only list one on the PP's. They are definitely using an inner and an outer.

Does anyone have info on this?

-Matt

[Bill V.]

Hi Matt

I'm not a Gulf-stream fan but I did find this

From google search

"2010
For people who have handicapped Gulfstream in the Past, the first question may be, “What is different this year?” According to Cobb, “The newest twist is the splitting of the turf course into an inner and outer course. The word is that the inner course may be somewhat more than usually favorable to speed. However, I haven't really had a chance to verify that for myself. The outer course should run more like a normal turf course, but bear in mind that the Gulfstream Park course is a bit sandy and a little faster than most courses.”

[Lt1]

Thanks Bill it was driving me crazy the other day. Don't understand why none of the pps note that they are running on an inner and outer. Makes a big difference when keeping a model

[Ted Craven]

Query under way to TrackMaster - I'll report back.

For example, GP Sunday Dec 8:

Races 2 & 9 ran on the Outer Course, DTV = -11
Races 5, 8 & 10 ran on the Inner Course, DTV = +25

Those DTVs per the TrackMaster data Result Charts, though the distinction does not show up on Equibase or BRIS PDF Result Charts. Nor in the current PP data set.

It's pretty clear if you watch the first few seconds of the Video Replays ...

Ted

[Lt1]

Thanks Ted however I want to know in advance which one the race is on like is done for Bel & Sar.

[Ted Craven]

Originally Posted by Lt1

Thanks Ted however I want to know in advance which one the race is on like is done for Bel & Sar.

Agreed! Me too!

[Appy]

Yepper Bill, and (per article this morning) the GP handle is very healthy too, at rate of 7X Calder.

[dirty moose]

Thanks for the info Ted. That's rather shady of GP... If the distances stay consistent, I guess that would be OK. Either way, how do they get away with not telling people the facts?

[Mark]

It appears that Gulfstream Park is attempting to run year round. Their single turf course can not stand up to that use and with winter turf racing is nonexistent outside Florida, other southern states and the west track management is using this racing to attract betters and horses. However, as you can see whether via ommission or intent, they
haven't made the necessary changes in starting gate and timer beam placement positons. The result is that the outer oval is probably somewhere around 100 ft longer of a race and the early fractions are much slower.
However, you don't have to be fooled in your paceline selection. The new distance has huge variants 40 -60. When you see these avoid those lines. This new distance also has second calls about 2 seconds slower than the inner surface. This will become more apparent as the same horses run over the different courses, particularly Early horses. Until a new par is established,
probably next year, for the outer oval, or the starting gate position is changed or the distance is recognoized as "about" the program will see horses off those lines off the outer course as slower.

[Ted Craven]

One possible reason Gulfstream may have for not reporting the distinction between courses is that they may view the Turf course as one wide course (just speculating) - in the same way as when a track with a wide Turf course (e.g. Woodbine) positions rails out by a large amount, they also don't consider that they then have 2 turf courses.

Perhaps those rails are of the non-permanent variety and the course can be merged, if required (future Breeders' Cup) ?

Heed Mark's warnings about reported running times on the 2 courses. However, TrackMaster IS keeping a separate Inter-Track Variant for each Turf course, and related Daily Track variant, which will show up subsequently in PPs. I think this may be the first year for calculating such variants and I would tread lightly in accepting double-digit fast or slow DTVs as reliable adjustments of running times. These variants will be recalculated in January 2014 from 2013 races run (as is done for ALL tracks). Expect this re-casting of variants to change some of the numbers reported in Charts and PPs so far this year for GP Turf races run.

Ted