Trainer Intent - Pace and Cap

shoeless · 03-09-2009, 07:58 PM

For those of you who think that everytime a trainer sends out a horse he is trying to win with it I suggest you read The Gasman Lights Up the Toteboard by Gasper Moschera.For those of you not familiar with him he only won the NY trainer title six times.

Just because you use follow the Sartin Methodology doesnt mean you cant open your eyes to new things.

tom · 03-10-2009, 06:58 AM

I use trainer info a lot, but I use it as a reason to forgive bad lines and go back to better ones. Works well for me, but the horse still has to match up on pace in the end. I find this very useful ad cheaper tracks with a lot of conditioned claiming races.

I'm ordering that book today, Jeff....I got a good review of it from a friend.

shoeless · 03-10-2009, 07:03 PM

Tom.Im sure you will enjoy it Gasman was really a master at the claiming game.Jeff

Jonathan Steele · 03-13-2009, 01:50 AM

Shoeless correctly said:

"Just because you use follow the Sartin Methodology doesnt mean you cant open your eyes to new things."

If you can successfully incorporate non-Sartin corollaries into your analysis, especially when handicapping cheap and very cheap horses, you only $tand to benefit. I'm sure Doc would agree.

But if you can't, you should strictly adhere to the methodology as prescribed.

Regards,

Jon

Jonathan Steele · 03-13-2009, 02:02 AM

Jeff,

I thought about buying this book in the past but declined based upon a review from someone on that 'other' forum. Basically, from what this person said, you'd have to be at the track to gain those insights that Gaspar mentions in his book. Is this correct? Or can something be gained from its reading to better (read: more correctly) intrepret the past performances?

Regards,

Jon

Bob Cochran · 03-13-2009, 02:26 AM

While Doc Sartin excluded trainer intent aand jockeys from the methodology,
he advised anyone who wished to use these factors to investigate, and keep records. If they were able to profit, more power to them.

He never stated jockey and trainer factors had little, or no value. The intention was to avoid being distracted by isolated factors and angles.

If a person kept records, and found the jockey and trainer material to be
supplemental to their handicapping, then by all means , use it.

Anytime someone would introduce non-sartin methodology material or ideas at
a seminar, the advice was: "do a study on anything you feel would aid
your bottom line, and from your records, proceed accordingly"

Some would ask : what about first time or second time lasix? What about bandages on the front legs?? What about certian type shoes?? what about trainer percentages??

The answer was clear and simple. We kept no data on any of that material. It isn't part of the methodology. If you wish to research it, be my guest.

Make your wagering decisions based on your personal records. The oweness
is on you.

BobC

shoeless · 03-13-2009, 05:10 AM

Jonathan,In my opinion most of the info in the book you did not have to be at the track just the good ole DRF.Jeff

shoeless · 03-13-2009, 05:13 AM

Bob,Thanks for clearing that up and you should know.Jeff

Jonathan Steele · 03-13-2009, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoeless

Jonathan,In my opinion most of the info in the book you did not have to be at the track just the good ole DRF.Jeff

Jeff, thanks for letting me know! I tell ya, you can't believe everything you read online without double checking for yourself (afterwards)!

Regards,

Jon

Jonathan Steele · 03-13-2009, 02:31 PM

Bob said:

"While Doc Sartin excluded trainer intent aand jockeys from the methodology,
he advised anyone who wished to use these factors to investigate, and keep records. If they were able to profit, more power to them."

You see, just as I thought!

Thanks Bob.

Jon

03-09-2009, 07:58 PM	#1
shoeless Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 4,640	Trainer Intent For those of you who think that everytime a trainer sends out a horse he is trying to win with it I suggest you read The Gasman Lights Up the Toteboard by Gasper Moschera.For those of you not familiar with him he only won the NY trainer title six times. Just because you use follow the Sartin Methodology doesnt mean you cant open your eyes to new things.

03-13-2009, 01:50 AM	#4
Jonathan Steele Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 471	Shoeless correctly said: "Just because you use follow the Sartin Methodology doesnt mean you cant open your eyes to new things." If you can successfully incorporate non-Sartin corollaries into your analysis, especially when handicapping cheap and very cheap horses, you only $tand to benefit. I'm sure Doc would agree. But if you can't, you should strictly adhere to the methodology as prescribed. Regards, Jon __________________ "Free your mind and the profits will follow." Last edited by Jonathan Steele; 03-13-2009 at 02:03 AM.

03-13-2009, 02:02 AM	#5
Jonathan Steele Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 471	Jeff, I thought about buying this book in the past but declined based upon a review from someone on that 'other' forum. Basically, from what this person said, you'd have to be at the track to gain those insights that Gaspar mentions in his book. Is this correct? Or can something be gained from its reading to better (read: more correctly) intrepret the past performances? Regards, Jon __________________ "Free your mind and the profits will follow."

03-13-2009, 02:26 AM	#6
Bob Cochran Grade 1 Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 329	Trainer Intent While Doc Sartin excluded trainer intent aand jockeys from the methodology, he advised anyone who wished to use these factors to investigate, and keep records. If they were able to profit, more power to them. He never stated jockey and trainer factors had little, or no value. The intention was to avoid being distracted by isolated factors and angles. If a person kept records, and found the jockey and trainer material to be supplemental to their handicapping, then by all means , use it. Anytime someone would introduce non-sartin methodology material or ideas at a seminar, the advice was: "do a study on anything you feel would aid your bottom line, and from your records, proceed accordingly" Some would ask : what about first time or second time lasix? What about bandages on the front legs?? What about certian type shoes?? what about trainer percentages?? The answer was clear and simple. We kept no data on any of that material. It isn't part of the methodology. If you wish to research it, be my guest. Make your wagering decisions based on your personal records. The oweness is on you. BobC

03-13-2009, 05:13 AM	#8
shoeless Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 4,640	Bob,Thanks for clearing that up and you should know.Jeff Last edited by Bill V.; 03-13-2009 at 05:18 AM. Reason: double word :)

03-10-2009, 06:58 AM	#2
tom Grade 1 Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 644	I use trainer info a lot, but I use it as a reason to forgive bad lines and go back to better ones. Works well for me, but the horse still has to match up on pace in the end. I find this very useful ad cheaper tracks with a lot of conditioned claiming races. I'm ordering that book today, Jeff....I got a good review of it from a friend.

03-10-2009, 07:03 PM	#3
shoeless Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 4,640	Tom.Im sure you will enjoy it Gasman was really a master at the claiming game.Jeff

03-13-2009, 05:10 AM	#7
shoeless Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 4,640	Jonathan,In my opinion most of the info in the book you did not have to be at the track just the good ole DRF.Jeff

03-13-2009, 02:31 PM	#10
Jonathan Steele Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 471	Bob said: "While Doc Sartin excluded trainer intent aand jockeys from the methodology, he advised anyone who wished to use these factors to investigate, and keep records. If they were able to profit, more power to them." You see, just as I thought! Thanks Bob. Jon __________________ "Free your mind and the profits will follow."

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