Trainer Intent

[shoeless]

For those of you who think that everytime a trainer sends out a horse he is trying to win with it I suggest you read The Gasman Lights Up the Toteboard by Gasper Moschera.For those of you not familiar with him he only won the NY trainer title six times.


Just because you use follow the Sartin Methodology doesnt mean you cant open your eyes to new things.

[tom]

I use trainer info a lot, but I use it as a reason to forgive bad lines and go back to better ones. Works well for me, but the horse still has to match up on pace in the end. I find this very useful ad cheaper tracks with a lot of conditioned claiming races.

I'm ordering that book today, Jeff....I got a good review of it from a friend.

[shoeless]

Tom.Im sure you will enjoy it Gasman was really a master at the claiming game.Jeff

[Jonathan Steele]

Shoeless correctly said:

"Just because you use follow the Sartin Methodology doesnt mean you cant open your eyes to new things."

If you can successfully incorporate non-Sartin corollaries into your analysis, especially when handicapping cheap and very cheap horses, you only $tand to benefit. I'm sure Doc would agree.

But if you can't, you should strictly adhere to the methodology as prescribed.

Regards,

Jon

[Jonathan Steele]

Jeff,

I thought about buying this book in the past but declined based upon a review from someone on that 'other' forum. Basically, from what this person said, you'd have to be at the track to gain those insights that Gaspar mentions in his book. Is this correct? Or can something be gained from its reading to better (read: more correctly) intrepret the past performances?

Regards,

Jon

[Bob Cochran]

While Doc Sartin excluded trainer intent aand jockeys from the methodology,
he advised anyone who wished to use these factors to investigate, and keep records. If they were able to profit, more power to them.

He never stated jockey and trainer factors had little, or no value. The intention was to avoid being distracted by isolated factors and angles.

If a person kept records, and found the jockey and trainer material to be
supplemental to their handicapping, then by all means , use it.

Anytime someone would introduce non-sartin methodology material or ideas at
a seminar, the advice was: "do a study on anything you feel would aid
your bottom line, and from your records, proceed accordingly"

Some would ask : what about first time or second time lasix? What about bandages on the front legs?? What about certian type shoes?? what about trainer percentages??

The answer was clear and simple. We kept no data on any of that material. It isn't part of the methodology. If you wish to research it, be my guest.

Make your wagering decisions based on your personal records. The oweness
is on you.

BobC

[tom]

Originally Posted by shoeless

Tom.Im sure you will enjoy it Gasman was really a master at the claiming game.Jeff

Book came today...just started reading it, but skimming through, it looks pretty good. Very good quality print, easy to read the PPs, unlike a lot of books. Even had some FL examples of races I had played. I like his insights from what I have read so far.

[JimG]

If you are into the trainer side of things, two older books I would recommend reading are:

Inside the Claiming Game by Steve Collison

Handicapping Trainers by John Whittaker

Jim

[Tim Y]

Horses, like athletes in any sport, are, and always will be INDIVIDUALS. These books about databases somehow allowing the author to let you "read the trainers mind" are pure and unadulterated MALARKEY. All three year old filles have nothing more in common than their sex and their age, as do three year old turf runners.

I spent two years as a volunteer groom and hot walker and learned first hand the myriad number of ways distinctly different horses require distinctly different training regimens. This one is a finicky eater, this one tends to throw shoes, this one has a hard time running inside of other horses (just like the Big Brown out one), this one gets bored in the stall and needs a goat friend and when that friend in not there he will not train, this one has gone barn sour and needs a freshening, aother one gets a sore back if he works longer than 5 furlongs, this one needs a special unregulated bit for his workouts and we hope we can control him with lesser bits on race day, this one requires special handling away from other unaltered males, etc etc.

The way each of these problems are dealt with is enormously different. A friend just bought a five year old maiden standard bred a few weeks ago. "The other trainer missed that fact that this one needs a strong head pole and a few other goodies to keep her mind on racing." Sam made a few changes and the horse, since that change of trainer and change of simple equipment, has made three starts won twice and ran 4th the other time.

You could never "read into that" from any database. IT IS THE INDIVIDUAL horse that requires INDIVIDUAL treatment. there are several miles of MIS-UNDERSTANDING between what might APPEAR to be cause and effect and what really is.

My favorite parallel is from a movie about a great baseball pitcher. In the stands a father answers his son's question: "Dad, why are the pitcher and catcher talking out there?" Dad: "well they are talking about how to pitch to this hitter."

A close up on the pitcher and catcher; Pitcher: "so you still have that shot gun for sale?"
Catcher:"yes but why ask me about it now?" Pitcher:"just wanted to make sure I talked to you ahead of the other guys."

Unless you are there, GUESSING from a distance is just guessing.

[Lt1]

I provided picks for Gaspers' service several yrs ago. He use to tell me that all a trainer can tell the owner was the horse was ready for a top effort. No trainer can tell you his/her horse will win.
Tim