Pace and Cap - Sartin Methodology & The Match Up - View Single Post

Ted Craven · 12-09-2023, 04:37 PM

With respect, some of the posts above are mistaken about a few things:

1. As Mike (MJS6916) demonstrates, the PUBLIC TwinSpires (TS) site is not behind a paywall - obviously. It does not ask for a UID or PWD, hence my original comment that it is a promotional part of the site - intended to induce people to engage further with the paid aspects of the site. This is the only source of data RDSS has ever accessed - PUBLIC.

2. Correct, that TwinSpires offers ratings in its BRISnet PP products which ARE behind a paywall - you need to Login (e.g. Prime Power, ProfitLine, etc), and allowing that those numbers very infrequently vary from those offered on the PUBLIC site (not enough to worry about overall, says Tim G/Lt1 - because I asked), but otherwise its the same numbers both public and private. It's the same as TrackMaster/Equibase selling PP data including the Entries to a race (Race conditions, horse, jockey, trainer names, weight, Post Position, Morning Line, etc, etc) -- while at the same time that same data is freely available on the Equibase public site and hundreds of other sites around the world (i.e. the free Equibase pages you land on from the RDSS Data Centre when you right-click on any card). They offer that data for free to get you to buy stuff! RDSS takes what is only publicly and freely available and presents it to the user for their consideration.

I agree that the Rx3 formula includes ProfitLine rank within it - adding value, in a way, to raw ProfitLine - and I may rethink that.

3. The TwinSpires button on the RDSS Desktop leading to the TS track list for the day - is not illegal. Not MORE illegal than if you put a web-page link on your browser for quick access (is Firefox, or Chrome, or Edge browser doing something illegal enabling folks to access favoured websites quickly and repeatedly?) If one puts a website link on your Windows Desktop, is Microsoft doing something illegal by enabling/permitting that? Or the New York Times or Fox News websites for embedding any number of off-site web links to other sites relevant to articles? That's just ridiculous.

4. If anyone prefers to use the Prime Power and ProfitLine ratings which they get by buying BRISnet PPs - OR if they want to use ANY other rating from any other vendor (like people have been doing since Day 1 and before) - they are most welcomed and it's none of my business. I am just trying to present helpful tools which I like to use.

5. No one has commented over the past 16 years about RDSS use of Tote data drawn from TwinSpires and ancestor sites. But that data is not behind a paywall either. Doesn't matter if one actually makes USE of tote data (though many do). Why the rush to judge now?

I reiterate - after thinking about it, I am not presenting in RDSS anything which someone could not help themselves to anyway for free. And - TwinSpires WANTS you to access that data for free. Plus, my view is: RDSS presentation of that data (2 Ratings and tote data) invites users to engage further with TwinSpires, makes money for TwinSpires, buy data from and place bets with them, etc. My casual estimate is that 50 - 70% of RDSS users bet with TwinSpires, so this is an enabling service.

Folks may not appreciate that when you LOOK at those ratings on the TwinSpires public site (per Mike's images above) or in BRISnet PPs, according to the Terms and Conditions, you are not even allowed to WRITE them down on a piece of paper or ENTER them into a spreadsheet. Just LOOK at them. It's a ridiculous caveat which, while rampant in boilerplate blurbs everywhere, is high-probability never enforced.

Folks are most welcomed to take an 'absolutist' point-of-view about that. Folks are also free to never click on that TwinSpires button, and to never opt-in again to having RDSS display ANY data from TwinSpires when I get it repaired: Ratings, Tote, Results, Scratches - whatever. Please follow your personal interpretation of things for your own moral guidance. Don't worry, be happy!

Wait to see how I present things when I get it back up and running. You will have to Opt-in and accept a disclaimer that you use these data for your own personal use and not for sharing and could find them yourself anyway for free on a public website. No data from TwinSpires will ever 'leap out of the bushes' to ambush you and offend your moral sensibilities. Then, if anyone still thinks I am a 'criminal thief ... with morals of an ally cat' - just write me and I will cheerfully cancel your RDSS subscription and immediately refund the remainder of your Subscription - no worries.

My intention is to have fun with handicapping and engage with interesting and uplifting people. Life is too short and the opportunities for enjoyment too plentiful.

With respect, and best wishes for handicapping success and enjoyment

Ted

12-09-2023, 04:37 PM	#16
Ted Craven Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada Posts: 8,865	With respect, some of the posts above are mistaken about a few things: 1. As Mike (MJS6916) demonstrates, the PUBLIC TwinSpires (TS) site is *not behind a paywall* - obviously. It does not ask for a UID or PWD, hence my original comment that it is a promotional part of the site - *intended* to induce people to engage further with the paid aspects of the site. This is the only source of data RDSS has ever accessed - PUBLIC. 2. Correct, that TwinSpires offers ratings in its BRISnet PP products which ARE behind a paywall - you need to Login (e.g. Prime Power, ProfitLine, etc), and allowing that those numbers *very infrequently* vary from those offered on the PUBLIC site (not enough to worry about overall, says Tim G/Lt1 - because I asked), but otherwise its the same numbers both public and private. It's the same as TrackMaster/Equibase selling PP data including the Entries to a race (Race conditions, horse, jockey, trainer names, weight, Post Position, Morning Line, etc, etc) -- while at the same time that same data is *freely* available on the Equibase public site and hundreds of other sites around the world (i.e. the *free* Equibase pages you land on from the RDSS Data Centre when you right-click on any card). They offer that data for free to get you to buy stuff! RDSS takes what is only publicly and freely available and presents it to the user for their consideration. I agree that the Rx3 formula includes ProfitLine rank within it - adding value, in a way, to raw ProfitLine - and I may rethink that. 3. The TwinSpires button on the RDSS Desktop leading to the TS track list for the day - is not illegal. Not MORE illegal than if you put a web-page link on your browser for quick access (is Firefox, or Chrome, or Edge browser doing something illegal enabling folks to access favoured websites quickly and repeatedly?) If one puts a website link on your Windows Desktop, is Microsoft doing something illegal by enabling/permitting that? Or the New York Times or Fox News websites for embedding any number of off-site web links to other sites relevant to articles? That's just ridiculous. 4. If anyone prefers to use the Prime Power and ProfitLine ratings which they get by *buying* BRISnet PPs - OR if they want to use *ANY other rating* from any other vendor (like people have been doing since Day 1 and before) - they are most welcomed and it's none of my business. I am just trying to present helpful tools which I like to use. 5. No one has commented over the past 16 years about RDSS use of Tote data drawn from TwinSpires and ancestor sites. But that data is not behind a paywall either. Doesn't matter if one actually makes USE of tote data (though many do). Why the rush to judge now? I reiterate - after thinking about it, I am not presenting in RDSS anything which someone could not help themselves to anyway for free. And - TwinSpires WANTS you to access that data for free. Plus, my view is: RDSS presentation of that data (2 Ratings and tote data) invites users to engage further with TwinSpires, makes money for TwinSpires, buy data from and place bets with them, etc. My casual estimate is that 50 - 70% of RDSS users bet with TwinSpires, so this is an *enabling* service. Folks may not appreciate that when you LOOK at those ratings on the TwinSpires public site (per Mike's images above) or in BRISnet PPs, according to the Terms and Conditions, you are not even allowed to WRITE them down on a piece of paper or ENTER them into a spreadsheet. Just LOOK at them. It's a ridiculous caveat which, while rampant in boilerplate blurbs everywhere, is high-probability never enforced. Folks are most welcomed to take an 'absolutist' point-of-view about that. Folks are also free to never click on that TwinSpires button, and to never opt-in again to having RDSS display ANY data from TwinSpires when I get it repaired: Ratings, Tote, Results, Scratches - whatever. Please follow your personal interpretation of things for your own moral guidance. Don't worry, be happy! Wait to see how I present things when I get it back up and running. You will have to Opt-in and accept a disclaimer that you use these data for your own personal use and not for sharing and could find them yourself anyway for free on a public website. No data from TwinSpires will ever 'leap out of the bushes' to ambush you and offend your moral sensibilities. Then, if anyone still thinks I am a 'criminal thief ... with morals of an ally cat' - just write me and I will cheerfully cancel your RDSS subscription and immediately refund the remainder of your Subscription - no worries. My intention is to have fun with handicapping and engage with interesting and uplifting people. Life is too short and the opportunities for enjoyment too plentiful. With respect, and best wishes for handicapping success and enjoyment Ted __________________ RDSS - Racing Decision Support System™ Last edited by Ted Craven; 12-09-2023 at 04:47 PM.