Pace and Cap - Sartin Methodology & The Match Up - View Single Post

Ted Craven · 05-02-2011, 03:11 PM

As you will have seen from other posts about RDSS 2.0, it includes an optional set of readouts based upon the NewPace ideas of Dave Schwartz.

In his advertisement blurb about NewPace, Dave distinguishes this new work of his from what he calls 'Sartinian Pace', by which he means the pace ideas developed by Doc Sartin during the 1980's, which we generally label as Phase III and brought to the masses by Tom Brohamer in his 1991 classic Modern Pace Handicapping (MPH). By the early 1990's, with the advent of Energy!, Deceleration, etc - the Methodology had moved on from that phase and several waves of enquiry have followed since. Doc himself said often that he had to move on because the popularity of his ideas had lead to declining mutuels, while more obscure winners were fully within grasp using new insights. And the same scenario is true today.

For a methodology founded in pace analysis (though Doc said many times that it is better to think whole-race analysis) and the Matchup, it makes perfect sense to me to continue to enfold new thinking about pace from the best minds who are doing it. And Dave Schwartz' NewPace is an intriguing piece of new thinking into how horses vie for position and run Early or Late; and as such I believe it has a proper place among our modern enquiries into whole-race (including pace) analysis.

Dave has given me permission to base this new RDSS2 module upon his NewPace concepts as described in his video product and subsequent updates. He wants as many people to use it as possible, but he also wants access restricted to those who have purchased his NewPace product from him. I agreed to this. He wants discussion about the specifics and formulas, rules and regulations - basically the secret sauce - to be limited to those who have purchased it from him. I can accept his point of view on this.

To be clear - everyone who wants to use NewPace within RDSS2 (when it is ready) will be able to do so - all they have to do is buy NewPace first from Dave. No one who does not wish to use NewPace in RDSS2 (or doesn't even want to think about it) will be compelled to do so.

I happen to think it's a great idea to discuss the ideas as widely as possible while this part of RDSS2 is in development - to post screenshots, tally ROI, look at its strengths and weaknesses, propose enhancements, etc. Folks should feel free to continue to do any and all of that in the existing RDSS 2.0 Forum. But to keep Dave happy, we'll have to refrain from discussing the detailed rules and moving parts of NewPace in that Forum.

I have therefore set up another Forum - a private forum - named NewPace Discussion as a sub-forum under the RDSS Forum group. I have replicated the few recent threads containing lots of Selections, RDSS2 screenshots and discussion of rules and screenshots from Dave's videos and placed them in this new Forum. Some early testers have already created extensive spreadsheet analysis of NewPace components over hundreds of races. This forum is a good home for all of this and more: the next release of RDSS2 will have more ratings to consider in this NP context, and bug fixes and omissions, and many serious researchers will undoubtedly make for a better product than I could (or should) develop alone.

My suggestion would be to use the public RDSS 2.0 Forum for screenshots, discussion about usage, summaries of a day's profits/losses, ROI analyses, but instead, post any comments or explanations regarding rules or formulas, debate, critique or improvements in the new private NewPace Discussion Forum. Dave Schwartz participates regularly in this new Forum.

To join the NewPace Discussion Forum, simply send an email to support@SartinMethodology.com with proof of purchase of NewPace from Dave Schwartz (e.g. a copy of an emailed receipt of purchase) and you'll get access to that Forum. (Please also remind me of your PaceandCap User Name)

This private versus public discussion issue has troubled me somewhat. I would prefer it all to be in the open, but until I can convince Dave of that, this optional plug-in to RDSS2 has some licensing conditions on it. Hope this works for everyone, but please feel free to give any feedback!

If you want to purchase NewPace now, just go here: http://store.thehorsehandicappingaut...ewpace-bundle/

If you want to wait until RDSS 2.0 is released before making any decision (and I don't see why not) - that makes perfect sense to me.

FYI - I don't make any money at all from Dave from his sales of NewPace to anyone (nor does he on RDSS).

Ted

05-02-2011, 03:11 PM	#1
Ted Craven Grade 1 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada Posts: 8,854	NewPace in RDSS 2.0 As you will have seen from other posts about RDSS 2.0, it includes an optional set of readouts based upon the NewPace ideas of Dave Schwartz. In his advertisement blurb about NewPace, Dave distinguishes this new work of his from what he calls 'Sartinian Pace', by which he means the pace ideas developed by Doc Sartin during the 1980's, which we generally label as Phase III and brought to the masses by Tom Brohamer in his 1991 classic Modern Pace Handicapping (MPH). By the early 1990's, with the advent of Energy!, Deceleration, etc - the Methodology had moved on from that phase and several waves of enquiry have followed since. Doc himself said often that he had to move on because the popularity of his ideas had lead to declining mutuels, while more obscure winners were fully within grasp using new insights. And the same scenario is true today. For a methodology founded in pace analysis (though Doc said many times that it is better to think whole-race analysis) and the Matchup, it makes perfect sense to me to continue to enfold new thinking about pace from the best minds who are doing it. And Dave Schwartz' NewPace is an intriguing piece of new thinking into how horses vie for position and run Early or Late; and as such I believe it has a proper place among our modern enquiries into whole-race (including pace) analysis. Dave has given me permission to base this new RDSS2 module upon his NewPace concepts as described in his video product and subsequent updates. He wants as many people to use it as possible, but he also wants access restricted to those who have purchased his NewPace product from him. I agreed to this. He wants discussion about the specifics and formulas, rules and regulations - basically the secret sauce - to be limited to those who have purchased it from him. I can accept his point of view on this. To be clear - everyone who wants to use NewPace within RDSS2 (when it is ready) will be able to do so - all they have to do is buy NewPace first from Dave. No one who does not wish to use NewPace in RDSS2 (or doesn't even want to think about it) will be compelled to do so. I happen to think it's a great idea to discuss the ideas as widely as possible while this part of RDSS2 is in development - to post screenshots, tally ROI, look at its strengths and weaknesses, propose enhancements, etc. Folks should feel free to continue to do any and all of that in the existing RDSS 2.0 Forum. But to keep Dave happy, we'll have to refrain from discussing the detailed rules and moving parts of NewPace in that Forum. I have therefore set up another Forum - a private forum - named NewPace Discussion as a sub-forum under the RDSS Forum group. I have replicated the few recent threads containing lots of Selections, RDSS2 screenshots and discussion of rules and screenshots from Dave's videos and placed them in this new Forum. Some early testers have already created extensive spreadsheet analysis of NewPace components over hundreds of races. This forum is a good home for all of this and more: the next release of RDSS2 will have more ratings to consider in this NP context, and bug fixes and omissions, and many serious researchers will undoubtedly make for a better product than I could (or should) develop alone. My suggestion would be to use the public RDSS 2.0 Forum for screenshots, discussion about usage, summaries of a day's profits/losses, ROI analyses, but instead, post any comments or explanations regarding rules or formulas, debate, critique or improvements in the new private NewPace Discussion Forum. Dave Schwartz participates regularly in this new Forum. To join the NewPace Discussion Forum, simply send an email to support@SartinMethodology.com with proof of purchase of NewPace from Dave Schwartz (e.g. a copy of an emailed receipt of purchase) and you'll get access to that Forum. (Please also remind me of your PaceandCap User Name) This private versus public discussion issue has troubled me somewhat. I would prefer it all to be in the open, but until I can convince Dave of that, this optional plug-in to RDSS2 has some licensing conditions on it. Hope this works for everyone, but please feel free to give any feedback! If you want to purchase NewPace now, just go here: http://store.thehorsehandicappingaut...ewpace-bundle/ If you want to wait until RDSS 2.0 is released before making any decision (and I don't see why not) - that makes perfect sense to me. FYI - I don't make any money at all from Dave from his sales of NewPace to anyone (nor does he on RDSS). Ted __________________ RDSS - Racing Decision Support System™ Last edited by Ted Craven; 11-10-2014 at 10:02 AM.