Last Thoughts
 

I just wanted to thank everyone who has helped me here and also the people who sent me e mails while I was suspended.I will no longer be posting here for many reasons the main one being that it's like walking on eggs posting here because you wonder if the message will either get deleted or edited by the moderators.Many men and women have died for this country protecting our rights freedom of speech being one of them.I do not believe this site allows you to do so.Quite a few good handicappers who I respect Pino,Partsnuts,Fast and Tim Y have been chastized by members here for posting different views of the Sartin Methodology.As far as Tim Y and Fast I used to be one of the ones who piled on and I apologize for doing so,I just started thinking hey at least these guys are taking the time to post.Some of you should really lighten up here life's too short and dang this is aint nothing but a horse racing website.Any of you feel free to e mail me if you ever want to share ideas and I hope our paths will cross down the road.Jeff

Just to let you know while Doc had many outstanding ideas on racing his main purpose was to make money.For anyone who doesnt believe this I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

Jeff,

I am in total agreement with your thoughts and feelings.
I wanted to respond to your post, which I believe is the best one you've ever made.
It is and will be my belief that free speech, thought and opinion has died here.
I further believe that this forums intent is focused on other things that are financially motivated as opposed to "friends helping friends".
The deceptive, promotional and devisive tactics that are being practiced here are an insult to ones intelligence.

I apologize for those that take offense to this but this is your priviledge.

There are still a lot of good people here that I hold as friends that will eventually come to the same conclusions. Hopefully, we will be in contact with each other. I'm easy to reach.

As with many of my recent posts, I expect this post to be deleted so I made a copy of it and will post it to my users group and blog.

It baffles me how some people feel they "have the right" to enter someone's establishment and behave however they want. It makes me wonder how these same people act as a guest in someone else's home. Do they really believe that their "rights" supercede a host's right to create and operate a website how the host wishes? There is nothing preventing these same people from creating their own websites to exercise their "freedom of speech", except themselves.

Looks to me like freedom of speech is alive and kicking at PaceandCap

I am in total agreement with the above and I know Bill V will continue to do a great job with this site ,assisted by so many good teachers and friends.

Vanoy

I'm really going to miss the melodrama. Guess I'll have to go back to watching soap operas. :D

I'm glad for this Topic, as it gives (another) opportunity to clarify (if there is possibly anyone left who doesn't understand this yet), that no one gets censored or suspended or banned from Pace and Cap for expressing dissenting opinion, or even for discussing horse racing concepts unrelated to the Sartin Methodology or The Match Up (though these last 2 topics are indeed the focus of this website - just check the mast-head graphic).

Courteous, informative, thought-provoking, friendly, even inspiring discussion is the goal here (not always achieved, but still sought after). So if a post is discourteous or uncivil (e.g. 'you're an asshole/idiot/thief') it will be editted or deleted. If someone actually is an asshole, or a know-it-all, or a bully, or a rabble-rouser in their private life, or community or social circle - that is not the issue or responsability of anyone here to change that, only to prevent that behaviour from disrupting THIS community. If that is a member's inclination in their posting, those posts will be editted or deleted sooner or later. Don't bait other posters, don't raise old rivalries or perceived or actual insults needlessly. You don't HAVE TO join every fight - you don't HAVE TO have the last word in every discussion: some people just can't resist this tendency and, in my opinion, it tends to speak poorly of oneself for rising to such bait.

But if you say Sartin is a bum, or if he was mainly interested in money, or if you don't like that some software or educational or historical materials are offered here for money, well I see no reason for censorship there. It doesn't mean it's true. Even if you forget to add "in my opinion" to your post, though some people have a communication style that just states things baldly as if their opinion were the gospel truth and imply that disbelievers are ill-informed or ignorant (though this writing style can be REALLY GRATING) - even so, why not try to just pretend that such styles of posting are actually THAT PERSON'S OWN OPINION, possibly worthy of consideration, but not necessarily fact. Some topics are subjective - there is no absolute truth, only points of view.

This forum does not permit 'anything goes' - I believe words to that effect are stated in the Registration Terms of Use. Those who fight and die for freedom of speech, in all civilized countries, also endorse community standards and enforce norms of civil behaviour. Many people have put too much time, money and spirit into building this community to let it be diminished by immature or overbearing tone of voice. It scares newcomers or lurkers from posting (and learning), fearing flames; it drives existing members away. People come here from some OTHER horseracing websites because they dislike the tolerance of bad behaviour there.

I believe I myself have editted (and not deleted) precisely 1 post so far, where someone called someone an 'a**hole' and I said in advance that I would do that. As for Pace and Cap becoming commercially focused, well I guess that refers to me, Ted Craven and to RDSS, since that's the only thing I know of promoted here where money is currently accepted for anything (oh, besides the Library, for which a self-determined donation is suggested, not even required, which Library represents thousands of dollars of many people's previously purchased materials and huge time investment to collate into a publicly available online resource, plus management of the related web infrastructure). If you don't like RDSS, or me, or the Google ads at the bottom of the page (does anyone even notice these?), just avert your eyes, just ignore it!! Also just ignore that Doc Sartin says RDSS is a rightful continuation of his work, so what else did you think would be happening on a website focused on The Sartin Methodology.

For the record, I too am focused on making money. I made way better money developing commercial software for years. I'd like my horse-racing software project to turn into a viable business and I thank Bill V for making space available here for me to pursue that goal. I think approximately 99% of people have no problem with that, but I may be wrong. If I wanted to make even more money, I would not be sharing RDSS with anyone (hint: betting, but take that up with my wife and my mother), so optimizing my time for making money by selling RDSS is not my primary focus. If anyone is tired of seeing too many people posting their RDSS stuff or mentioning it in their work, take it up with those members themselves. None of the Pace and Cap moderators control what software people choose to post examples of, or discuss. As for my videos on RDSS usage, or Richie's videos teaching the Match Up, or Bill V's videos showing how he wins races, or my upgrade/resurrection of Doc's Validator software (Val4) or anyone else's screenshots or sharing of any spreadsheets or tools or descriptions of their successful and hard-earned methods - last I looked they were all offered freely, and in the spirit of friends helping friends.

This post is actually not addressed to Jeff or to Partsnut per se, as I'm not seeking (or able) to change their opinion about anything. I am seeking to correct misinformation about the policies of Pace and Cap (such as I understand them) regarding 'freedom of speech' and 'censorship' - for others who may be confused by what was said in the opening posts.

Jeff and Partsnut: if you want to post then post; if you don't then don't. I'm pretty sure you already knew what the rules of discourse were - you were just trying to see if anyone was paying attention, right? In any event, I wish you great fortune with whatever horse racing software or method you use, and I do wish you a positive experience with life.

Ted

Something to Consider
 

This is not my writings but I think it is appropriate for this thread.

There are indeed holy beings who walk among us, who have much to teach us from the wisdom of their old souls, from souls that have perhaps always been old. And every once in a while, we find ourselves fortunate enough to be in a place where we are prepared to listen. And if we are very fortunate indeed, we might even remember what we have been taught: to be humble, to really pay attention, and to be grateful for the beauty to be found in each other, not in spite of our flaws, but because of them.

Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That’s how the light gets in.

Leonard Cohen (Anthem)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7FRukQX3pA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt9ELx3GhfQ

Jeff,

I hope you reconsider your action. Pace and Cap' without Shoeless is like a day without (fill in the blank).

All the best, my friend.

Jon

Is there something wrong with the idea of making money out of what you do? I have owned a tavern, a restaurant, a traveling road show, a computer repair business and several other enterprises over the years.

The purpose of every single one of those businesses was to make money. I would not have done any of them for free.

That does not mean that i did not do the best job that i possibly could in every jub that I've had and did not try as hard as I possibly could to deliver the best product of which I was capable. It also does not mean that I did not care about my customers and would not go the extra mile to serve them and make them happy.

We do live in what is supposedly a capitalistic system and my understanding of that form of social organization is that it is not a crime to make money out of what you do in life.

Dick

Obviously, with 907 posts, they've been working overtime to keep you muzzled.

Dick

Just to reiterate what I said at the beginning of my thread is that I wanted to thank everyone who has helped me,which of course has been overlooked by most people who posted comments.Even though my questions were annoying as Socantra pointed out to me before there were others who told me it helped them one way or the other.I just wanted to let them know why I wouldnt be posting anymore[not that's it any big deal if I do or not].


Have fun using the Sartin Methodolgy if that's your cup of tea more power to you.

Socantra: "In reality, I had over 1000 posts. It seems that some of my posts mysteriously disappeared. If you are up on your math then you can figure it out.
This happened to me and no one else so we can't blame the server for that. So for whatever the reasons were and I'm sure that I may even hear some lame excuse for this, it is not acceptable to me as well as being dictatorial and I know that this was done on purpose. However, life is a 2 way street and just as I can choose to post my honest opinions, there are those that can choose not to read them. Let me also add that your snide remarks are shallow and have very little substance or meaning to me and gives me a strong inclination as to what your true character is.

post counts
 

I have not deleted post for any other reason than
I felt it was the best thing for the group
I stand by Ted and Rich and there actions

you call the reason lame

It is true and I deleted blocks of post based on time fram
Others lost post too. Its just that they
took this problem up with me in private emails

Bill

If you'll notice, individual posts from contests have been deleted, perfectly understandable because they add up quickly and take up space without adding any content. Mine are gone and so are everyone else's. It is acceptable to me.

I know some people have gauged their contribution to this site by the number of their posts and not the content, that's unfortunate.

Oh No! Timeless prose wiped out. I was particularly fond of one of mine. I believe it was "$6 to win #4, $4 to win #7".:)

Partsnut, you're right. My last post was a bit snide and I apologize if I offended you.

I do not believe, however, that anyone on this board is going to great lengths to censor you, or anyone else. Bill has announced many times that civility will be enforced. That is not the case in many places on the net, but it is here.

He also has every right to edit for space, since he pays the bills. If you feel a particular post that was important has been removed, the proper procedure is to contact Bill in private and try to work it out.

If you can not work it out, remember that it is Bill's football and the rest of us are all guests. As guests, our last option is to leave, not to stand in the middle of the room and scream about how unfairly we are being treated.

Dick

Absolutely amazing. Good explanation.

No matter how you explain it, " if I don't get my way, some crime has been committed."

The bible is approximately 6,000 years or 60 centuries of warners, prophets, messengers, apostles, preachers, etc., all to no avail, look at the world today.

And I am not excluding myself as the problem.

So what are you gonna say in in 1 minute that could'nt get thru in 1,000's of years?

People want to believe what they want, and want what they want, whether they are right or wrong, it doesn't matter.

People can die over and over again thru their mistakes, you can dig them up over and over and give them another chance of life, and what will they do...???

Probably be a more properly skilled at invoking their hearts desire, whether it's right or wrong, whether it steps on someone else's rights or not, they want what they want, period.

And not even God or an Act of God will EVER change their opinion.

Folks, all you gotta do is look at THE FOLLOW UP....that's what Bill has been tryin to model this post after.

So if you did'nt like THE FOLLOW UP or seminars, you probably don't like this forum.

Did'nt remember reading Doc going back and forth to several clients or participants in a piss match.

Don't remember the Pirco Charter Teaching members , in example, THE HAT saying anyone believing in jockeys or trainers like Tom Brohamer is a stupid so and so, they had some measure of class, though their methods differ.

Doc wrote about anything PROVABLE over multiple 20 race cycles that will ENHANCE or increase the power of the Sartin Methodology.

Which means either/and more consistant wins than previously, more money, higher mutuals.

Freedom of Speech on the flip side also has Freedom of Consequences.

Freedom of Speech is not 100% perfectly literal.

You can say "FIRE!" in a crowded theatre.......You can say to the President of the United States to his face that he should be killed....you can also have a loud phone conversation in theatre at a premiere......but what would happen?

Would the Freedom of Speech arguement exhonerate you in court? Are you willing to put your dollars on that?

.....if you call the Judge in court a dirty name multiple times, he can give you a contempt of court and land you a fine and jail time.....A COURT, an American court, where FREEDOM OF SPEECH was established ,enforced and protected...,

So can I come to your house , work or establishment an exercise MY freedoms, irregardless of the rules and code of conduct?

Hell, Freedom..., I can get about 50 people in a golf course, pay their way, then dribble basketballs all on the course, or lie on the course all over and have a picnic while people are actively playing, so how far is too far?

How bout me interrupting your conversation and verbally challenging you everytime you talk to someone else, though I be a complete stranger, I have the freedom of speech.

So how far is too far ?

Basically, " if I don't get my way, you suck, period."

Proper place and proper time for things.

VoodooFan

there is no accepted usage of the word irregardless.
—Usage note Irregardless is considered nonstandard because of the two negative elements ir- and -less. It was probably formed on the analogy of such words as irrespective, irrelevant, and irreparable. Those who use it, including on occasion educated speakers, may do so from a desire to add emphasis. Irregardless first appeared in the early 20th century and was perhaps popularized by its use in a comic radio program of the 1930s.

*** Hey - this thread is, in part, about civil discourse. Please don't bait the other posters, it's not nice. Enough said. No response is necessary, thanks. (Ted)

The first word in a sentence should be capitalized.

VooDoo,

Very, very well said.

Thanks,

Budman

Nodouble did you ever see your namesake run?

Saw him at Anita twice and at Three Chimneys. Wasn't he the one called THE Arkansas Traveler?

Dude,dude, I mean,......J-e-e-e-e-e-e-z--z-z-z-U-S christ, dude, I mean.., ..wow.

You are deathly serious, aren't you?? You really not jokin.

Man, you should start a sub league and make some real dough, like, the Verbal / Intellecutual Ultimate Fighting Championship, except everything is legal, including street fighting, cheap shots, scratching, biting , pinching, eye gouging and free, open shots of NAD BLASTING.

You're killin me, dude. !You're killin me, Lar-r-y-eee!!! :eek:

We should adopt your attention to detail and being literal to real world events, a real ambassador of world peace and understanding.

Yeah......, F*** world peace and all that kinda crap.

Yeah, it's not about anything, except winning, and it's cheating only if you get caught, cause if you're not cheatin, you're not tryin.

Civility!?!? Sportsmanship ?? What the **** is that!? Who needs it.

If you get someone on the ground, kick his teeth in and stomp till there's nothing but a puddle left, no solid matter left.

Then relieve yourself on the remains.

If you need more than a mop or sponge to clean that beat down up, you did'nt do your job thorough enough,..Loser, peacenik.

Let's adopt his sentiments and attention to specifics, put understanding aside, and truely usher in, accelerate and rush into ARMAGEDDON, let's get rollin.

Political war, religious war, intellectual and academic war, ethnic war, race war, philisophical war, family war, personal war, cultural war, economic war, civil war, gender war, semantic war.

So many disputes, which fun train should one jump on ?

What are we waiting for? Let's finish it. Let's go.

And have a good, hearty, gut-busting laugh while it's happening.

For starters, let's use his barametor and pin-point targeting methodology, and apply it toward current world events and social ills, probably most excellent philosophy toward peace between religious disputes, just for starters.

Thanks for being exhibit A.

Keep up the good work. There are millions , if not billions of folks, deep in their heart, who has this lurking somewhere in their soul , there is a community of brotherhood with these feelings, you are not alone.

Feel the warm embrace of brotherhood with your bretheren, worldwide.

VoodooFan

" Yeah, um, I agree with you...but..."

" Um, no , I disagree with you...but....."

" Well , um, you're right ", or " um , you're wrong....but..."

" Doesn't matter what you're opinion is...but...."

".....that term is an improper moot definition..."

"......that word does not exist in the english lexicon...."

"......that term cease to exist in the 11th century, negates and invalidates your application....."

"........that idiom is insufficant and an expired indo-eurpeon word incorrectly attached to an adverb....."

"..........that word varies significantly from the phonology of the language...."

"...........just wanted to state and show evidence you did'nt use the past participle properly....." and applied it's usage incorrectly...."

.....J-e-e-e-e-e-z-z-z-U-S flippin christ......

VoodooFan

This feels like the right time to close this non racing thread up. Folks have said what they had to say, no bodies have washed up on the shore :D nobody has been banned (moderated for a spell yes but banned NO).

Everything good to ALL members/non members alike at Pace and Cap.

I'm out the door heading to Jersey for a morning hook up with our fearless leader:) and his pal "Baum".

Safe day everyone