Para-Mutual Investing & the I.R.S. & Security
 

Please, some feedback from consistant winners or consistantly semi-consistant.

Maybe most of us will never have this problem, or at least, not for a long time, anyway, if ever.

But dealing with the Feds(IRS):

What has worked for you over the years, or the best piece of advice when doing taxes from winnings, like....

Is there a tax specialist who knows proper deductions and write-offs from Para-Mutual Investing?

Do you save ALL tickets, whether winners or losers?

Do you file long, as a corporation, capital gains, etc,.?

In general , how do the Feds treat consistant winners, and whats the best way NOT to throw up RED FLAGS their way and forever stay under the radar and OUT of their sight..?.....if that is at all possible.

Wonder what Brohamer or Bob Cochran, or even THE HAT would say or other charter teaching members?

Boy, what's it like to win enough to have these problems? Are there problems ? Or will there be problems?

Don't you got to watch your back, as far as security? Aren't there scum bags who hang around the track watching and waiting for a sucker to take?

Just remember that story about a stinking drunk dude at Hollywood park who won the pick 6 and had maybe $72,000 or so in cash, and just would'nt shut up about it. Kept bragging all the way out the door, on his way home, nice and loud for everybody to hear.

They found him dead, later, with his cash gone.

I guess to talk and dream about success is one thing, but to actually deal with it is alright also, maybe it's not as romantic as we fanticize.

But more money in yer pocket is better than less money you don't have.

VoodooFan

Voodoo:

The Answer, At Least From My Prospective, Is To Keep Excellent Records And Good Clean Consecutively Numbered Tickets. Do Not Pick Up Tickets With Shoe Marks On Them.

Gary L.

Giving back a huge chunk of my money when I'm already getting hammered by the takeout doesn't sit too well, unfortunately. And, to the best of my knowledge, one can only declare expenses if handicapping is one's occupation.

So, two options remain:

1) go to the track and bet with anonymity like the old days -- hard to do once you get accustomed to handicapping in front of your PC. Of course, the extra time spent commuting and the aggravation suffered in interacting with the natives out there is balanced by the extra money you'll pick up as a result of paddock and warmup inspections. Here, YOU do the work, the TRACK takes ITS money, and YOU get to keep your winnings. If you're really pulling out some cash, you could always hire someone to bet for you. So, there are much CHEAPER workarounds than 30%+ taxes.


2) live very close to an OTB and deal with giving back 5% on each bet. this might not seem the way to go but 5% is alot better than 30% ---assuming you can take out a good chunk from the game. And, let's face it, if your ROI isn't $1.5, which means you can easily deal with the 5%, you really shouldn't be playing anyway. You should be begging for rebates and writing about your handicapping prowess over at PA.

As far as I know you have to file as a "Professional Gambler" as your occupation and primary source of income.
Otherwise your losing tickets will not be acknowledged.
As Gary stated and which is well advised, you must keep very detailed records of your expenses as well as your win and loss records which is not difficult to do when us use a service such as Twin Spires. If you play at the track or at an OTB office. Photocopy your win tickets and keep all your losing tickets.

LMFAO,ROFL,LOL,LOL:) Footprints and/or shoepolish non-deductable.

VoodooFan

That sucks.

Get financially raped as though you were a 9 to 5'er wage earner.

No, maybe worse, cause on regular wages, you can file jointly, deduct children, medical, etc,.

Even if someone had the ability to be a Professional Gambler, who would soley do ONLY that?

If you make a decent enough score consistantly, you won't have to gamble all the time, and you would be off into other investments like Real Estate, Bonds, small corporation,etc,.

Hate talking about politics in any vein, but one dude says a national sales tax, adjustable to the level and luxury of purchased goods. If you buy a luxury item, taxes would apply, higher on some scale. If you bought a $1 digital watch, it would also apply , except much lower. That will NEVER happen. Washington, World Banks,Corporations are swimming drunk in a sea of cash gained with taxes. Too much fun raping the Treasury and sharing profits with their friends,both democratic/republic and others, lobbyist, corporate buddies on sham projects too numerous to name.

Now my danders up. Check Lincolns and Kennedys executive orders weeks or months before they got shot. They were going to take back TOTAL control of the Federal Reserve and its notes. Art Bell is smilin now, boy.

VoodooFan

In Toronto at Woodbine, we don't have that problem. There is no taxes wether you win at the track or lotteries.

How much do you have to win to get taxed?

emilio

G@#%&*mn, too much cloak and dagger just to keep what honestly earn.

Starting to think the KGB and IRS differences are only the choice of 3 letters.

Everything so expensive, I can't even find the (cents) symbol on my keyboard. Is it on yours?

VoodooFan

irs
 

i don't know if any one wants to read/ believe this. at both otb's i go to there are 2 different gents who will cash your IRS ticket for a small percentage. knew this and saw this several times, once just recently. check out the 1st 3 races at PHA within the last 2wks. a monday, mar 31, the pick 3 was 6-10-6 9-1/35-1/2-1. and this guy hits the excta in race two.
however, if one is cashing IRS tickets, HEY, your making some money, go for it!
Rverge

Paying the IRS
 

For what its worth almost every OTB and racetrack a a couple of guys who will cash your big tickets for you and take a certain amount either fixed or percentage for doing this. If you win big and would put you in a 30pct bracket and that will go up after the election this year. It is probably worth using this as a way to keep from paying the full amount. As for Canada doesnt do this I am sure they being the government finds a way to get money from the folks what with all the socialism up in that neck of the woods.

And this to a very basic difference between me and you; and, the assumption is that we're both able to pull out $100k a year betting.

You have no problem giving back $35-$40k of it to Uncle Sam cause you've been 'properly' socialized.

I, on the other hand, don't enjoy getting BENT OVER. To each his own.

Did I hit a nerve?

Dude, I am TOTALLY lost as to what this statement has anything to do with what you quoted my post on.

There is no hidden agenda to smack anyone here, (except the IRS),so only you know what this means and why you wrote, cause I'm clueless, really I am.

VoodooFan

The Gambler's Guide to Taxes by Walter L. Lewis, CPA, contains excellent advice.

Most everyone knows you have to fill out a W-2G if you hit a big exotic (which may or may not have taxes taken out immediately).

If a big hit is to be split you have to fill out Form 5754.

Many people are only vaguely aware of the following:

• ALL winnings are supposed to be reported to the IRS
• Having someone sign for your large exotic hit is fraud. It might be wise to not scream at the top of your lungs that you just hit and ask the crowd who wants to sign for it.
• The IRS does not have to accept any of your reported losses. One word -- "Disallowed" -- is enough to crush you.
• The IRS is not fond of gambling losses. Your betting records better be meticulous and detailed. Collecting losing tickets of others is an exercise in futility.
• In general, you don't want to offset more than 80% of your winnings as loses.

Tax laws change constantly and for peace of mind you really need to consult a CPA or tax attorney.

Nice heads up on the info.

Beware of the casino rewards cards.
 

The government can get all of the information of your activity patterns.
The casinos will willingly work with the government to collect information about you if they are told that you are a suspect in some alleged illegal activity.
If you wager more than $2500 a day in a race book you must consider yourself a almost a suspect.
I recently asked one book manager and he said "we wouldn't do that".
I then asked an ex book manager and he said absolutely.
At $3000 a day they will automatically give your picture, name and activity pattern to the government because you are now a suspect in some sort of illegal activity.
I would suggest that the stateside ADW's will do the same if they want to stay in business.
One time I put $5000 into a savings account and years later it was brought up by the IRS.
They wanted me to prove that it was not drug money.

Long time Nevada residents will remember Gerald Swanson who was at one time the head of the IRS for this area.
He made an agreement with the tip earners if they came clean and started to report their tips the IRS wouldn't go after them for past indiscretions.
After about two years after most had come into line the IRS fired him and said that their signed agreements were no longer valid and they then started to go after everybody that signed up.

Froggy's advice "be very careful".

North of the border:NO TAX on any winnings no matter how large.