Slow Because
 

Things are slow because:

How about people filling in the blanks. Why not post why ?

I would say because criteria too narrow.

Fast4522:

Quote:

Things are slow because:

In my humble opinion it is just the opposite.
I believe the criteria is overwhelming.
The administrators of this board has offered quite a bit of good information.

There are many things that can be openly discussed.
The problem, as I see it, is that not everyone is willing to share their observations, methods, software and ways that they use or do things. So that's the "giving" side of the equation. However, the "takers' are by far in the majority.
It's what I consider to be " a let me pick your brain affair".

Horse Players come in 3 flavors.
1 - The casual player
2 - The Gambler
3 - The Investor or Professional Level Player or those that aspire to be.

In my opinion and in a sense, a lot of individuals in the 3 afformentioned catagories resemble "the race horse" because they are wearing blinders and can only see straight ahead and for the most part can't be told very much of anything. They are focused in one direction and when talking or trying to explain a concept to them, you will be talking upon deaf ears.
Possibly one in twenty have the capabilty or mental capacity to absorb or understand a money making concept if it was thrown in front of there faces.
I know this to be factual.
On this board and to my best knowledge there is no stupid question.
Interest can be genrated by the simple posting of a race "before the fact".
Everyone has an opinion but won't offer it because the think they'll be
ostracized for it. In reality, no one really cares.

We all started at the beginning. However you might want to segregate the
"givers" from the "takers".

Fast,You hardly post anyway so I dont why your bringing it up in the first place.Jeff

hurt
 

Thanks parts
something you mention has hit home
I just prefer to post things after the fact. Like we learned
from the follow up.
I always try to post races with my final readouts and pacelines
shown. I feel this will answer some readers questions
and maybe bring up some thoughts other have
Unfortunatly like Marvin Gaye I hear things through the grape vine
and some "clicks" here don't like it I also hear crap about contest selections from people who either don't try or quit
Both these things have caused me to be a little less brave and confident
and maybe I have gotten stage frieght
But I do fight it because I want this forum to be different then the
"good ones" It is not about good or better. Its what is. I like it here
and I know that the cream rises to the top. Good people make you a winner if you ask them and they are winners
Thats what I think P and C is about

GS
Bill

P.S
Jeff , good point

Its the time of the year . In Michigan as in many other states where the weather is less than ideal you have to take advantage of all the good days to be outside enjoying or simply doing what has to be done . After Labor Day the weather usually goes downhill fast so I have to work to put everything away and get ready for winter. Handicapping and making posts take a backseat to what HAS to be done.

Narrow criteria?
 

Am greatly relieved that the focus here is what I prefer to call, directed: the Sartin Methodology of course.

From numbers crunching through computer application, to dealing - repairing - the psychological foundations of our personal and wolrd view. Important, because a corrupted or broken psychological outlook is the unwelcome gate keeper that means success will always be at arms length. And now, numerous and ready examples of the esoteric nuances found in the Match-Up. What else would anyone expect from a BB that owes it's origins to Howard Sartin's concepts? All occasionally spiced with a contest to keep our competitive juices flowing.

This is what I was looking for; It looks like a prescription for success to me!

Am clueless why some members post and others don't, can only speak for myself. I do what I can, when I can. If I have, what I believe is a unique or particularly original point of view, I post. They just don't pop up every day. I don't ask many questions; if something isn't clear to me, I stay with it until I figure it out - it's called learning.

In fairness, I guess one could say we are "narrow in our criteria" but never in generousity of spirit.

Regards,
Chris

Admin:

Quote:

Thanks parts something you mention has hit home I just prefer to post things after the fact. Like we learned from the follow up. I always try to post races with my final readouts and pacelines shown. I feel this will answer some readers questions and maybe bring up some thoughts other have

Bill. I would never fault what you do. I am only expressing what my preferences would be. T respect whatever you choose to do here.
As I've openly stated before, You are the consumate teacher and have given a lot to many including myself. I am very appreciative for that.
My implications are meant for the ones that are constantly taking and not giving or adding anything construstrutive to this forum.

I dont think Bill justs limits the posts here to things that just pertain to the Sartin Methodology.I know I complain about people posting but I do realize that their are things far more important then horse racing that prevent them from doing so.Jeff

Shoeless: "I know I complain about people posting but I do realize that their are things far more important then horse racing that prevent them from doing so.Jeff"

Jeff, It is fairly obvious that I am referring to the active participants on the board that do in fact, have the time to be here and feel that horse racing is important to them. You know very well and have expressed to me on many occasions that there are those that will not share and are here for the soul purpose of picking someones brain.

What else can to be said about the Sartin methods, that hasn't been said before. Is getting to be boring. Is any one here has some fresh and stimulating ideas on how to handicapp? Unfortunately new ideas require some work, and some don't want to put the effort in it. Too bad.
Pino

seinfeld - "we are going to do a show about nothing"

that is what this thread reminds me of.

"they will even make you a toasted muffin with butter and jam. ooohhh" - geico gekko

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Francis, I've always considered you as a good friend and appreciate your input. It was because of your willingness to share your obsevations with "Energy", which I believe was a major contribution to the board, that I am now on my way to successfully developing a profitabe method of play. It is still to early to tell but my last 10 bets over the weekend put me at a 2.88 ROI. I bet 10 races and came up with 3 winners, $ 22.00, $ 17.60 and $18.00 Respectively.
If you were not willing to share what you had found then
I wouldn't have been able to come up with my most recent method of play. Most people saw what you had written, played with it and then let it go.
They couldn't see the value of your analysis.
But in fact, I picked it up and expanded it and worked to make it better on a daily basis.
This is what the intent of this thread implies.
You are willing to share. Thank you for that. Most others are not. In the future, I will only share with those that have shared with me. My email is listed and those that I am friendly with know how to reach me.I do not want to be a benefactor to the undeserving. "The Takers".

Cliques
 

Admin: see definiton of "Cliques".below

Why hear it from the Grape Vine. Go to the source directly.
We all belong to Cliques and Bill, you are included as well. Don't be hurt or offended. Just practice what you preach. Not everyone has to be satisfied with some of the things that go on with this forum. Those that are very dissatisfied have the option of non-participation or
completely withdrawing.

Well, I have to admit I posted something that actually got other posts, cool I guess. Parts, I like your posts, you always try to include as much as you can. Shoe I guess we will always have that rub going on. The new guy on the block hungry for more. And myself who can't get into the hand entry stuff or the new pay as you go software. We all do our own thing no matter what some fu says to do, don't we.

parts
 

I respect your opinon
I will alway work hard to keep this forum on its
intended path

Bill

How about more having a opinion, and getting back to the original idea of everyone filling in the blanks and keeping this thread going just to be different.

This is my opinion only and is not a criticism of anyone or this board. In fact I think there are many savvy people who post here and I am interested in what they have to say.

Anyway, when I signed up a few months ago the first meaasge I read was do not ask anyone for any Sartin Software--no longer available. That kinda left me in the minority as although I have many of Sartin's old programs they no longer work on Windows XP. Further, I cannot punch in the data any longer as at my age I can hardly see the keyboard. So what can I post that will offer something new or of value to the Board?

Yes I did try Spec 160 thanks to Ted but the software I currently use does just as well if not better. (No offense Ted)

Guys keep in mind the software discussed here is no longer available to the general public--most people don't have it or can't get it! Has anyone tried to buy or trade for an Edsel lately? In other words new people are not attracted to the Board as they do not have the interest or software to talk about.

Bill--it could be that was the purpose of this Board and that's fine. Its just too bad we all have to get old and pass on.

Again, no offense to anyone on this Board but just my thoughts as to why things may have slowed down and I don't post more often.

Bill, Richie, Partsnut and many other--keep up the good work.

Cole: I like your style. You said it how it is. Like you, I'm getting up there in years so I guess we can relate.

Although you are using a different software, most of us, including myself would always be interested in what your using. It doesn'thave to be Sartin oriented.
Your posts and Input will only help make the board more interesting and give some of us a new prespective.

This board has always been an open forum and we can thank Bill (Admin.) for that.

Cole,
While its not to ask some for software here because other is now for sale now, I doubt seriously the majority feel that way as you will find out. I hope you have had the chance to check out VAL4 as well, and if not I am sure you will soon.

Parts

I use MPH, the last version Ken Massa did. Don't confuse it with the Trackmaster Ver as it is not the same. Massa's last ver will automatically pick 1 or 2 pacelines which he removed from the program when Brohamer lent his name to Trackmaster and the software went with him. The Auto Paceline feature and Quirin Pace and Speed Module are Ken Massa's creation. The Auto Paceline feature is dynamite. Its consistent and I don't have to spend my time agonizing over what paceline (s) to use. Massa scores each line (don't ask me how he does it) and the Program picks the most appropiate lines. I'm not bragging but I have had the most successful year ever at Sar using MPH. I have gone to Sar for the last 20 or so years. I have given other Programs a try but they wouldn't hold a candle to MPH.

That said, I am always open to new ideas and software. Someone told me once the mind is like a parachute--it only works when it opens.

Fast

You asked for other opinions and I offered one. No right or wrong, just my opinion as non-offending as I could be. I like this Board and I think there are some good handicappers here. I wish I could offer more. I'd rather be a giver than a taker.
No. I have not tried Val 4 but wish I could.

Good Handicapping to All

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I use MPH, the last version Ken Massa did. Don't confuse it with the Trackmaster Ver as it is not the same. Massa's last ver will automatically pick 1 or 2 pacelines which he removed from the program when Brohamer lent his name to Trackmaster and the software went with him. The Auto Paceline feature and Quirin Pace and Speed Module are Ken Massa's creation. The Auto Paceline feature is dynamite. Its consistent and I don't have to spend my time agonizing over what paceline (s) to use. Massa scores each line (don't ask me how he does it) and the Program picks the most appropiate lines. I'm not bragging but I have had the most successful year ever at Sar using MPH. I have gone to Sar for the last 20 or so years. I have given other Programs a try but they wouldn't hold a candle to MPH</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

As I said before, I like your style:
Us older folks can easily relate to each other.
Your preference to SAR leads me to believe you are a fellow NewYorker.

I also have this program. My question to you is how do you upgrade the track pars. To me it looks like it has to be done on a race by race basis. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Do you use the Beyer Numbers or the DRF Numbers?
Do you use the Modeler as well?
I like the fact that it will convert BRIS files.
There are others on this board that use this and find it to be quite good.
I believe it's version 1.4 if I'm not mistaken.
Buy the way, it's nice that you are willing to share but a word of caution: Be careful with whom and what you share. Not everyone here will be as giving as you might be.
If you wish to discuss this privately, I'm open to it.
My email is listed here.

Parts

I hear you. The last Ver Massa did was 1.3--the Trackmaster Ver is 1.4. I don't know why they considered it an upgrade as the Auto Paceline feature was taken out (this is really the heart of the program) and the Quirin Pace & Speed Module. Use Bris Files--work better than TSN, Trackmaster,etc. Remember the Program was written for the Beyers and Bris Files. I know a person who makes his living with MPH, Ver 1.3. I don't come close as I don't bet like he does or bet every day. Double check you version and also the Download Ver. It should be Ver 2.0. I have never upgraded the track pars but do keep a Model of certain races mostly at the beginning of a meet.

Let me know what Version you have. I'm from Connecticut. If you think this conversation should be private let me know.

Hi Cole,

I sent you a private message. I have version 1.2 of MPH which did not have the auto paceline feature. I would like to try 1.3 and have sent you an email. I think MPH is a very good program and a reasonable alternative for those of us that use bris files.

Jim

I believe I have the same version as you.
In fact, I have 2 different versions.I'll check it when I get home from work. At any rate the Pars and Variants should be updated in order to get a more accurate reading on Dirt and Turf tracks. Poly track is another story. They ain't figured them out yet.
I've been using Energy and Thoromation lately and have gotten some excellent results, developing a method of play and incorporating other software with it. I'm testing it again tonight at MNR. I won't be posting my choices here.

The older programs will work if you know how to make them work and I can help you with that. A lot of this software will work. It's how and what you bet you. I believe it's all in the numbers
If you are content to use MPH, I don't want to upset the applecart. If it a'int broken don't fix it.

Hi Bill,

Do you have to manually input into Energy and TMation, or are they download?

If you want, I can play a little MNR with you tonight until 9pm in the chat room. If you are interested, let me know.

Jim

pid
 

hi all grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. typed this large post and........don't ask. short version 1.1
presque isle downs; nice place, clean, everything close, comphy chairs,
surface (hand held) "weird", when raining, dry, fans complain can't hear horse running, using spec 160, hac 2 40+ winners plus the 2 7/2 winners.
wife hit $300 on the slots, got well.
Rverge
ps shoe, when did CT start running on mon?

Interesting versions,
I have:

MPH V 1.2 & 1.4 (works both Bris & Trackmaster)
VAL 2, 3C, & 4 (Trackmaster)
all the old sartin stuff (Saved files from Aodds)
and my own spreadsheet (not released)

Notes: Ted Craven restored VAL to its former working self, for everyone who loved the program. In addition for those folks who paid Guy Wadsworth for speculator he fixed it for them when Trackmaster made changes that screwed up figures. He also wrote a nice windows GUI Sartin program called RDSS which must be a natural extention of the Speculator that many still use and like. My opinion is no business man would have made something become unobsolete, but he did to his credit.

I myself am not a big Trackmaster guy, like Cole I am more of a Bris user because I drive a spreadsheet with the single file format.
So Cole, if you want VAL4 to take it for a spin just say so and any one of us will send you the file and help you set it up.
Steve

Rverge,They had a few dates that they didnt use so they are making them up with Mon cards,Im not sure how many more they will run.Shoeless