Agree with FTL
 

I was originally going to take a nasty shot here, but decided otherwise.

This site has maintained its demeanor and integrity based on mutual sharing and the discussion of information. If you feel you need to talk about something that's really hot, you should be willing to share it. Otherwise, keep it to yourself.

Doc Sartin proved a long time ago that new ideas (his) are only embraced by a few, and those few still had to put time in grade to understand all the nuances of that information. I would posit that reduced field size more than universal adoption of one or more amazing handicapping principles has more to do with reduction in the average mutual.

In the past, members on this site have posted publicly available information about the highest average mutuals for several tracks, so you are probably not the only player with such knowledge. FYI

Regards,


Bill

I would assume the track in question is Presque Isle Downs which closes tonight.

Dorianmode,

I don't think you've grapsed the concept of caring and sharing which is so prevalent on this website.

Perhaps it will come to you eventually.

My sentiments exactly.
I post my results and paceline selection method and am willing to share with everyone. This is why most of us are members, so that we can share are findings with others and learn as much as we can.
If you are unwilling to share with the rest of US, when we share with you I think you should find something else to do!!!!!

Am So sorry, and I apologize. I didn't mean to imply I would not share anything I know with this group, only that maybe it would be better not to post certain things in a public forum. I will keep things to myself in the future. Nost of you know a lo more than I do anyway. I was thinking someone may be making their living at Presque Isle, and didn't think it was dicreet to say what I did about them on the internet.

I was attempting to reply to the post about the "difficult" situation with respect to track odds these days. According to the my calculation, the break-even point for someone with a 75 % hit rate, is about a .345 % return, which I do not find all that difficult to find. What I really like about the big tracks, is that someone cannot come in at the last minute and radically alter the numbers, right before the race, thus ruining your dutch set up, which often happens at the small tracks. Soory, again, for the misunderstanding.

Dorian
 

I was not suggesting that you should not share, if all of us took your attitude and started to keep everything to ourselves then it would be a sad world.
It is my belief that when you share you will get more back than what you give. Enough said, not trying to preach.

Maybe we should stick to horse racing and handicapping, instead of personal attacks, especially by those who have added nothing constructive to this thread.

Nothing constructive
 

Dorian, if you feel that I have added nothing constructive, then that is your opinion. I will no longer post my testing results of RDSS2.
If anyone else is interested in my results from now on they can contact me personally and I will share with them on that basis only.
rmath

Gentlemen - may I suggest that it is one's own self who benefits the most from sharing, moreso than others benefit.

In the course of working on this RDSS project for over 5 years now, I have encountered more than a few serious and sincere folks who were of the view that sharing learnings, secret handicapping methods and other insights into racing resulted in a direct loss of dollars from their own pockets ('cause we're all competing against each other').

In the end, I do believe that is a fallacy based on scarcity, but also based on the misperception that too many other serious people will pay attention and put in the work to duplicate our 'precious' efforts. I personally think the Sartin Methodology will NEVER have wide enough respect to make much of an effect on public mutuels - it is just not 'cool' enough or conventional enough.

But the bigger thought to ponder is this: how did you get the tools you currently possess in your hands in the first place? Somebody shared them with you, spent time to hold your hand in some cases (I know, some of us are self-made men, blah, blah, blah). I also know there was a commercial transaction which took place at some point, whether you paid Doc Sartin or you paid me, or whomever - so you bought and paid for it and let others do the same.

I faced the same decision point about 5 years ago and took one fork in the road. The consequence of that decision is RDSS, such as it is today. I certainly could have kept it to myself and I likely would have spent way more time betting, presumably making good money, and way less time making it available to anyone else. But I would not have learned HALF of what I have done over those years by meeting, learning from and collaborating with many individuals both smarter than I am, but also just plain different or with more time. Maybe you would not have benefited from there being a PaceandCap website (which maybe you found through Google), or from someone having digitized and made freely available here all the Follow Ups, or manuals or audios, or the Match Up work of Jim Bradshaw, or shared rare copies of his Match Up book, or whatever. But some folks have benefitted.

Today I no longer accept private, custom jobs to modify RDSS to the specific private use of individuals. Partly it is too time consuming and confusing to manage, but mostly it is philosophical - I want to learn more, to collaborate and synthesize best practices within the focus of what we have come to know as the broad umbrella of the Sartin Methodology. I want to resist the temptation to hoard, or to feel even subconsciously that someone is always about to steal something from me.

But I try to remember as often as possible that Doc Sartin and the others gave way more value to my understanding and enjoyment of this game (and my current attempted livelihood) than I ever paid them - were generous above and beyond the call of duty, so to speak. That's the foundation of every great business model: give more value than the customers pay for.

And I think it's not a bad way to lead one's personal life as well.

There's an element of behaviour related to the antithesis of the golden rule in all this: sure, go ahead and keep your secrets to yourself, but then don't be surprised if others become inspired by your model to do likewise. Pretty soon there will be no new ideas, and no newcomers taking up this challenging game.

The alternative is to 'be the change you seek in others'. For your consideration ...

Ted